duminică, 27 februarie 2011

[WitchesWorkshop] Digest Number 4664

Messages In This Digest (3 Messages)

1a.
Re: Intra-Pagan language (?) From: carteblanche13
1b.
Re: Intra-Pagan language (?) From: barbtrad
2.
Geelong Pagans at the Pub, 3/6/2011, 1:00 pm From: WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com

Messages

1a.

Re: Intra-Pagan language (?)

Posted by: "carteblanche13" carteblanche13@yahoo.com.au   carteblanche13

Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:44 am (PST)



Hmm. I'll try to keep it short, addressing the final statement, albeit point by point:

--- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com, "beah_arboreal" <paganhearth@...> wrote:
>
> (article ):
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ... We need a more inclusive language when speaking about Paganism.

For what purpose?

If it's the final question below, I may disagree.

> I am making an effort towards that in my own writing, often using "all that which is Divine" instead of speaking of the Goddess or the Gods.

This is also a bit like saying "All that is human" when you really mean "Brian". This is called "generalising". In doing so, you're just referring to the category to which your present conception of the Goddess belongs, rather than an example of a Goddess (which one?) with whom you have formed a particular (not general!) relationship. This does not make it inclusive, it makes it vague. :-)

In fact, it sounds like monotheism :-)

I can understand why you're doing what you're doing, but the Theosophists, Crowley, and several centuries worth of antropologists and comparitive religionists have beat you to it, as I'm sure you know. If left unchecked, reductionism of this sort can sometimes lose as much as it gains, and surely the rich heterogeneity of the various paths is compromised when lumped together like that.

> *** If we cannot find a way to develop an intra-Pagan language and dialogue, how can we hope to develop a robust and accurate interfaith dialogue?

I don't think any specially contrived effort is required towards this at all.

The right people find the right words to say to eachother according to their understanding and the appropriate communication is had using those means best understood by the talker. Those who intend to listen, do; those who do not, don't. The most sophisticatedly "interfaith/intra-pagan" powerpoint presentation will not accomplish what the simple desire to listen and truly learn (and fight the urge to reduce the other person's symbolic matrix to a bunch of generalisations), and then talk and share one's own truths, will. Ths intention is the only really important thing, the rest is a formality.

P.S. "Watered-down" wicca ? Nah. Homeopathic, rather!

cheers
:-D

> http://www.patheos.com/community/paganportal/2011/02/24/defaulting-to-wicca-issues-with-intra-pagan-dialogue/
>

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1b.

Re: Intra-Pagan language (?)

Posted by: "barbtrad" barbtrad@yahoo.com.au   barbtrad

Sat Feb 26, 2011 3:49 pm (PST)



Hi Scott.

--- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com, "scott_bisseker" <nu_scott@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings All
>
> Yup .... as all of space time is curved and teh gods (like geriatrics with ricketty legs) do indeed move in strange ways I find myself gobsmacked that one of my al time old arguments has come home to roost.

As seems to happen quite a bit as a lot of the newer versions are stacked up for more thorough scrutiny:-)
>
> > When Wicca is used as a generic catch-all language for the greater Pagan community not only does it exclude the abundant diversity of the modern Pagan religious movement, but it feeds the idea that Wicca is bland, generic, insubstantial and shallow.
>
> I'd agree with teh former if not the latter. To my mind Wica most often is slowly being diluted by the number of people finding that they aren't Wiccan afterall simply because they adopt or identify - I don't know that I'd agree that it presents Wicca as any of these really.

Well to follow the adage..If you can't say something nice.. don't say anything... Wicca certainly has diversified hasn't it?
>
> Then of course there is the bugbear that Wicca is in itself very obviously a conglomerate of appropriations itself now being appropriated ... while irritating (yes even to me!) there is an upside of such views becoming itself so intrinsic among a wider population ... if that is something one can enjoy the idea of.

I'm waiting for some group to pop up and claim to be Catholic Wiccans... or perhaps Moslem Wiccans.. Or am I just being facetious?
>

>
> >If we cannot find a way to develop an intra-Pagan language and dialogue, how can we hope to develop a robust and accurate interfaith dialogue?
>
> Again, I am not so sure such is needed per se BUT that said ... I entirely agree with this.
>
> Subsisto
>
> Scott

I agree with Cotty ( well I suppose I have to don't I) on the lack of need for these things. Interfaith orgs, special language, overseeing bodies etc etc. And yes my experience has also been that those I have encountered promoting such things are...just as Cotty described.. people feeling a need to create something to be part of. Also, sorry to say, some are merely fish trying to find a smaller bowl so they can be the biggest resident within.

No one I know.. or more correctly choose to know, feel any need for these things we see others trying to promote. If you have your tradition, your kin, your Gods and Ancestors, quite frankly, what else do you need?

Bill.
>

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2.

Geelong Pagans at the Pub, 3/6/2011, 1:00 pm

Posted by: "WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com" WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com

Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:58 pm (PST)



Reminder from: WitchesWorkshop Yahoo! Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WitchesWorkshop/cal

Geelong Pagans at the Pub
Sunday March 6, 2011
1:00 pm - 5:00 pm
(This event repeats every month on the first Sunday.)

Notes:
Meet at the front bar for an afternoon of laid-back conversation with friendly pagan folk.

Irish Murphy's serves good meals at decent prices, and has Guinness and Kilkenny on tap!

Contact Ryan on 0423 537 278 or artistryankendal@hotmail.com

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