vineri, 25 februarie 2011

[WitchesWorkshop] Digest Number 4662

Messages In This Digest (4 Messages)

1a.
Intra-Pagan language (?) From: beah_arboreal
1b.
Re: Intra-Pagan language (?) From: scott_bisseker
1c.
Re: Intra-Pagan language (?) From: cottytosmaid
2.
Psychic Development Circle - Wollongong, 3/2/2011, 7:00 pm From: WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com

Messages

1a.

Intra-Pagan language (?)

Posted by: "beah_arboreal" paganhearth@gmail.com   beah_arboreal

Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:25 pm (PST)



Hi Folks

The question posed at the end of this article and interesting if others have a pov.

"If we cannot find a way to develop an intra-Pagan language and dialogue, how can we hope to develop a robust and accurate interfaith dialogue?"

I dont like the chances however this lady has a valid point of view in my experience. Plus being Wiccan herself drives the point further which is this is happening would people please discuss it.

BBBX

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Over on PAGAN+politics Cara Schulz wrote a great recap of PantheaCon. I will concur that not only is she very nice in person but very funny as well. I was happy to room with her and after meeting her in person have even more respect and love for her, even if she is a conservative! In her post she mentioned something that she and I had discussed while at the convention: Wicca-centric language.

At pan-Pagan events there is a tendency to default to Wiccan language in order to be inclusive. The problem is that it isn't inclusive of other Pagan religions. Speaking in terms of high priestesses, high priests, "The Goddess" and coven structure actively excludes other Pagan traditions. This tendency to use Wicca as a default is because for decades the majority of Pagans practiced some form of religious Witchcraft. That's no longer the case. Heathenry is growing by leaps and bounds, and Mediterranean religions are growing steadily.

It's pretty clear to see why this is an issue for Reconstructionists and other Pagan religions. However, as a Wiccan, I also find this offensive. Right now large numbers of Pagans are using Wiccan language, concepts, practices, structure and cosmology while looking down their nose at Wicca itself.

I had written awhile back about the idea of of cultural appropriation of Wicca but I never really delved into it. While perhaps not comparable to the cultural appropriation faced by Native American peoples, it's still a factor in the relationship between Wicca and the greater Pagan community. Not only due to it's pseudo-history, but also it's popularity, a great number of Pagans harbor an active disdain or contempt for Wicca. Part of this dates from the theories Hutton posited in Triumph of the Moon, part from the abundance of redundant, and even worthless, books on the religion, and partly due to Wicca having once acted as a gateway or buffer for other Pagan religions.

Courtesy cronewynd via Flickr CC license

Yet, as a Wiccan knowing this doesn't stop it from grating on my nerves when someone expounds Wiccan theology, participates in a coven, engages in Wiccan rituals and yet rejects the label of Wicca. We all know people who identify as some form of Pagan other than Wicca, and yet their worldview, practices and worship structure are practically identical to Wicca. This has led to the promulgation of watered-down Wicca, which has fed the contempt and disdain for the religion.

While I have heard Wiccans speak of this in private, there isn't very much public discussion about it. Either Wiccans react by separating themselves from the greater Pagan community or they shrug it off as inevitable in a movement where it is anathema to correct someone else's religious misconceptions.

When Wicca is used as a generic catch-all language for the greater Pagan community not only does it exclude the abundant diversity of the modern Pagan religious movement, but it feeds the idea that Wicca is bland, generic, insubstantial and shallow. We need a more inclusive language when speaking about Paganism. I am making an effort towards that in my own writing, often using "all that which is Divine" instead of speaking of the Goddess or the Gods. If we cannot find a way to develop an intra-Pagan language and dialogue, how can we hope to develop a robust and accurate interfaith dialogue?

http://www.patheos.com/community/paganportal/2011/02/24/defaulting-to-wicca-issues-with-intra-pagan-dialogue/

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Messages in this topic (3)
1b.

Re: Intra-Pagan language (?)

Posted by: "scott_bisseker" nu_scott@hotmail.com   scott_bisseker

Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:23 pm (PST)



Greetings All

Yup .... as all of space time is curved and teh gods (like geriatrics with ricketty legs) do indeed move in strange ways I find myself gobsmacked that one of my al time old arguments has come home to roost.

> When Wicca is used as a generic catch-all language for the greater Pagan community not only does it exclude the abundant diversity of the modern Pagan religious movement, but it feeds the idea that Wicca is bland, generic, insubstantial and shallow.

I'd agree with teh former if not the latter. To my mind Wica most often is slowly being diluted by the number of people finding that they aren't Wiccan afterall simply because they adopt or identify - I don't know that I'd agree that it presents Wicca as any of these really.

Then of course there is the bugbear that Wicca is in itself very obviously a conglomerate of appropriations itself now being appropriated ... while irritating (yes even to me!) there is an upside of such views becoming itself so intrinsic among a wider population ... if that is something one can enjoy the idea of.

>We need a more inclusive language when speaking about Paganism. I am making an effort towards that in my own writing, often using "all that which is Divine" instead of speaking of the Goddess or the Gods.

Perhaps we could start using language that everyone uses rather than jargon or getting words redefining and highjacking them? *Shrugs* I am all for that at least. Perhaps the language should be put together by someone completely OUTSIDE the circles and people could fit themselves TO it rather than the other alternative which I think we often agree doesn't work too well ...

>If we cannot find a way to develop an intra-Pagan language and dialogue, how can we hope to develop a robust and accurate interfaith dialogue?

Again, I am not so sure such is needed per se BUT that said ... I entirely agree with this.

Subsisto

Scott

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1c.

Re: Intra-Pagan language (?)

Posted by: "cottytosmaid" cottytosmaid@yahoo.com.au   cottytosmaid

Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:28 pm (PST)



Greetings.

--- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com, "beah_arboreal" <paganhearth@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Folks
>
> The question posed at the end of this article and interesting if others have a pov.
>
> "If we cannot find a way to develop an intra-Pagan language and dialogue, how can we hope to develop a robust and accurate interfaith dialogue?"
>
> I dont like the chances however this lady has a valid point of view in my experience. Plus being Wiccan herself drives the point further which is this is happening would people please discuss it.
>
> BBBX

If we cannot find a way to develop an intra-Pagan language and dialogue, how can we hope to develop a robust and accurate interfaith dialogue?

I am thoroughly unconvinced that we need any such thing. None of the arguments I've heard for any "interfaith" dialogue hold water. And while I'm not silly enough to make any broad, wide sweeping statements here, I can speak from personal experience; and that is, most of those trying to convince me of the value of umbrella organizations,overseeing bodies or interfaith anything are, in the main, not people part of a cohesive path with spiritual and physical infrastructure already in place, rather people who want to be, and the way they see to achieving that is to create something to be part of.

Cotty

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2.

Psychic Development Circle - Wollongong, 3/2/2011, 7:00 pm

Posted by: "WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com" WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com

Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:01 am (PST)



Reminder from: WitchesWorkshop Yahoo! Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WitchesWorkshop/cal

Psychic Development Circle - Wollongong
Wednesday March 2, 2011
7:00 pm - 9:00 pm
(This event repeats every week.)
Location: Wollongong

Notes:
Each week we explore a different topic of psychic awareness covering some of the following subjects... Meditation; Tarot; Oracle; Psychometry; Aura Reading; Dowsing; Spirit Connection; Angels; Fairy; Chakras; Crystal Ball; Skrying; Healing; Energy Working; Protection; Space Clearing and many other psychic energies and tools.

Within these circles the atmosphere is calm and protected, so you are free to explore your connections through meditation and practical techniques, in a safe, empowering environment.

Our Psychic Circle runs every Wednesday evening at 7pm

All are welcome and no experience is needed.

Contact Ali on 042 020 8879 or email alison@shamanicspirit.com.au

www.shamanicspirit.com.au

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