marți, 1 februarie 2011

[WitchesWorkshop] Digest Number 4641

Messages In This Digest (9 Messages)

Messages

1a.

Re: Diane Wolkstein, mythologist

Posted by: "aradia_weaver" krista.rados@gmail.com   aradia_weaver

Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:06 pm (PST)



Hi Leif,

No this isn't another wannabe. I took my kids to see her on the weekend at the National Gallery of Victoria where she performed "Journey to the West" - a retelling of the myth of the Monkey King. She is from New York I believe, and has been performing for the better part of 40 years, teling many stories, myths and bible stories. She also offers workshops on storytelling and the archetypes of the figures that appear in these myths.

Roxanne, thank you for posting this information as it was your post that inspired me to see her perform. It was a magical experience that could only have been better if I didn't have my 2 1/2 year old with me ;)

Aradia xx

--- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com, Leif Njordsson <godhi@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you for letting us know Roxanne
>
> Is this yet another wannabe white hijacking aboriginal mythology in
> order to make a buck? Our job should not be to steal their stories, but
> to empower indigenous peoples to tell their own stories.
> It is not for us to patronisingly tell their stories for them. This is a
> country where Aboriginal Spirituality is so discounted that it is not
> recognised in any form, by any arm of government. There is not one
> single recognised Aboriginal Celebrant in Australia. I am not talking
> about Aboriginal Christian celebrants, but celebrants of the old ways. I
> think it is time we empower our Aboriginal folk to tell their own tales
> and claim their own diverse spiritual framework, rather than promote
> people telling their tales on their behalf.
>
> I have no doubt that I have set myself up for the flames to begin but it
> had to be said!
>
> Wes Thu Hael
>
> Leif
>

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1b.

Re: Diane Wolkstein, mythologist

Posted by: "carteblanche13" carteblanche13@yahoo.com.au   carteblanche13

Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:37 pm (PST)



Leif,

What you wrote strikes me as a) ridiculous, and b) racist.

Would you scream outrage if an Indigenous person performed their interpretation of the Iliad?

Indigenous Australians are in fact free and "empowered" (as you patronisingly put it) to do precisely whatever they like in Australia in the 21st century.

And so is the artist presenting this.

And so is everyone else.

In the absence of either party having asked you or I to

a) "empower"/defend them to do anything at all; or

b) be outraged (in the boringly predictable, tired, and depressingly typical "white-middle-class bleeding heart on behalf of a non-white tribe in an effort to protect some nostalgic museum-like fantasy of yesteryear's habits, sort of way),

...it strikes me as fatuous to affect indignance over something which, quite simply, doesn't concern us.

Nobody is forcing anybody to go to see it.

Storytelling unites all races, and all age groups, and all art forms and cultures, from all times.

I hope that's okay with you, more for your sake than anything else.

Sincerely,
C.B.

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1c.

Re: Diane Wolkstein, mythologist

Posted by: "carteblanche13" carteblanche13@yahoo.com.au   carteblanche13

Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:52 pm (PST)



I don't see any of these people complaining about feeling disempowered:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQWE9UWcTSE

How is this a bad thing!?!

--- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com, "carteblanche13" <carteblanche13@...> wrote:
>
> Leif,
>
> What you wrote strikes me as a) ridiculous, and b) racist.
>
> Would you scream outrage if an Indigenous person performed their interpretation of the Iliad?
>
> Indigenous Australians are in fact free and "empowered" (as you patronisingly put it) to do precisely whatever they like in Australia in the 21st century.
>
> And so is the artist presenting this.
>
> And so is everyone else.
>
> In the absence of either party having asked you or I to
>
> a) "empower"/defend them to do anything at all; or
>
> b) be outraged (in the boringly predictable, tired, and depressingly typical "white-middle-class bleeding heart on behalf of a non-white tribe in an effort to protect some nostalgic museum-like fantasy of yesteryear's habits, sort of way),
>
> ...it strikes me as fatuous to affect indignance over something which, quite simply, doesn't concern us.
>
> Nobody is forcing anybody to go to see it.
>
> Storytelling unites all races, and all age groups, and all art forms and cultures, from all times.
>
> I hope that's okay with you, more for your sake than anything else.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> C.B.
>

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Messages in this topic (7)
1d.

Re: Diane Wolkstein, mythologist

Posted by: "cottytosmaid" cottytosmaid@yahoo.com.au   cottytosmaid

Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:14 pm (PST)



Howdy Leif.

--- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com, Leif Njordsson <godhi@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you for letting us know Roxanne
>
> Is this yet another wannabe white hijacking aboriginal mythology in
> order to make a buck? Our job should not be to steal their stories, but
> to empower indigenous peoples to tell their own stories.
> It is not for us to patronisingly tell their stories for them. This is a
> country where Aboriginal Spirituality is so discounted that it is not
> recognised in any form, by any arm of government. There is not one
> single recognised Aboriginal Celebrant in Australia. I am not talking
> about Aboriginal Christian celebrants, but celebrants of the old ways. I
> think it is time we empower our Aboriginal folk to tell their own tales
> and claim their own diverse spiritual framework, rather than promote
> people telling their tales on their behalf.
>
> I have no doubt that I have set myself up for the flames to begin but it
> had to be said!
>
> Wes Thu Hael
>
> Leif

Well Leif, I guess you did expect it.. and blow me down you got it! If it's any consolation I agree with your sentiments entirely. Just how the ratbag element can find "racism" in such sentiments beggers belief. But yet they do, and us... considered naughty, racist bigots just have to live with such stupid interpretations of things said that to me, are anything but racist.

Cultural theft is something I find abhorrent.. always have, always will.

Now I'll await the plaintiff bleats, which. of course I'll studiously ignore...Bill.

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1e.

Re: Diane Wolkstein, mythologist

Posted by: "Leif Njordsson" godhi@elderway.org   woodhenge_aust

Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:26 pm (PST)



G'day Bill,

Yes I have already received a blast from the "we can do anything we
like" brigade

This was supported by a statement "

> Indigenous Australians are in fact free and "empowered" (as you
patronisingly put it) to do precisely whatever they like in Australia in
the 21st century"

I sugest that she ask the Aboriginal recipients of the Government
intervention in the NT how empowered they feel. I lived on a Queensland
Aboriginal reserve for 14 months and saw a lot of empowered people there
- not!

I simply ask - "if Aboriginal people are so empowered in Australia where
are the Traditional celebrants?"

To use the analogy of the Illiad is a ridiculous argument. The Illiad is
a spiritual/historical work which has been long abused and not respected
for what it is. There is interestingly some recent work on "Homer" which
suggests a Celtic origin for his tales and particularly the Troy Saga.

Wes Thu Hael

Leif

On 1/02/2011 4:43 PM, cottytosmaid wrote:
>
> Howdy Leif.
>
> --- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WitchesWorkshop%40yahoogroups.com>, Leif Njordsson <godhi@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you for letting us know Roxanne
> >
> > Is this yet another wannabe white hijacking aboriginal mythology in
> > order to make a buck? Our job should not be to steal their stories, but
> > to empower indigenous peoples to tell their own stories.
> > It is not for us to patronisingly tell their stories for them. This
> is a
> > country where Aboriginal Spirituality is so discounted that it is not
> > recognised in any form, by any arm of government. There is not one
> > single recognised Aboriginal Celebrant in Australia. I am not talking
> > about Aboriginal Christian celebrants, but celebrants of the old
> ways. I
> > think it is time we empower our Aboriginal folk to tell their own tales
> > and claim their own diverse spiritual framework, rather than promote
> > people telling their tales on their behalf.
> >
> > I have no doubt that I have set myself up for the flames to begin
> but it
> > had to be said!
> >
> > Wes Thu Hael
> >
> > Leif
>
> Well Leif, I guess you did expect it.. and blow me down you got it! If
> it's any consolation I agree with your sentiments entirely. Just how
> the ratbag element can find "racism" in such sentiments beggers
> belief. But yet they do, and us... considered naughty, racist bigots
> just have to live with such stupid interpretations of things said that
> to me, are anything but racist.
>
> Cultural theft is something I find abhorrent.. always have, always will.
>
> Now I'll await the plaintiff bleats, which. of course I'll studiously
> ignore...Bill.
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3414 - Release Date: 01/31/11
>

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3414 - Release Date: 01/31/11

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (7)
2a.

Iranian regime kills man claiming to be "God"

Posted by: "carteblanche13" carteblanche13@yahoo.com.au   carteblanche13

Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:03 pm (PST)



The 67th person to be executed by the Iranian state since January 1st thought he was, and I quote, "God":

http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/-/world/8750887/iran-hangs-man-claimed-god/

I understand the hash is particularly good in that part of the world, which might explain it, but honestly, dude, come on. You're in Iran.

If you were really "God", you would NOT be in Iran. And you definitely wouldn't get busted, executed, and end up with a brief Yahoo news report as your legacy to mankind.

RULE OF THUMB:

DO NOT CLAIM TO BE "GOD".

ESPECIALLY IF :

a) you aren't;
b) you're in a place where claiming this is a suicidal offence

unless, of course, you are Jesus Christ, in which case, aren't you meant to be, um, a bit more impressive this time round?

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Messages in this topic (3)
2b.

Re: Iranian regime kills man claiming to be "God"

Posted by: "Graham" grahfurn@yahoo.com.au   grahfurn

Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:12 pm (PST)



Many thanks for sharing this CB, as I remind myself to think twice before considering travel to that part of the world... or sadly Egypt at the moment for that matter :-/
BB Graham.

--- On Tue, 1/2/11, carteblanche13 <carteblanche13@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

From: carteblanche13 <carteblanche13@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: [WitchesWorkshop] Iranian regime kills man claiming to be "God"
To: WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com
Received: Tuesday, 1 February, 2011, 11:02 AM

 

The 67th person to be executed by the Iranian state since January 1st thought he was, and I quote, "God":

http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/-/world/8750887/iran-hangs-man-claimed-god/

I understand the hash is particularly good in that part of the world, which might explain it, but honestly, dude, come on. You're in Iran.

If you were really "God", you would NOT be in Iran. And you definitely wouldn't get busted, executed, and end up with a brief Yahoo news report as your legacy to mankind.

RULE OF THUMB:

DO NOT CLAIM TO BE "GOD".

ESPECIALLY IF :

a) you aren't;

b) you're in a place where claiming this is a suicidal offence

unless, of course, you are Jesus Christ, in which case, aren't you meant to be, um, a bit more impressive this time round?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (3)
2c.

Re: Iranian regime kills man claiming to be "God"

Posted by: "carteblanche13" carteblanche13@yahoo.com.au   carteblanche13

Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:42 pm (PST)



It's a serious contender for the Darwin Awards, imo.

cheers!
CB

--- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com, Graham <grahfurn@...> wrote:
>
> Many thanks for sharing this CB, as I remind myself to think twice before considering travel to that part of the world... or sadly Egypt at the moment for that matter :-/
> BB Graham.
>
>
> --- On Tue, 1/2/11, carteblanche13 <carteblanche13@...> wrote:
>
> From: carteblanche13 <carteblanche13@...>
> Subject: [WitchesWorkshop] Iranian regime kills man claiming to be "God"
> To: WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com
> Received: Tuesday, 1 February, 2011, 11:02 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The 67th person to be executed by the Iranian state since January 1st thought he was, and I quote, "God":
>
>
>
> http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/-/world/8750887/iran-hangs-man-claimed-god/
>
>
>
> I understand the hash is particularly good in that part of the world, which might explain it, but honestly, dude, come on. You're in Iran.
>
>
>
> If you were really "God", you would NOT be in Iran. And you definitely wouldn't get busted, executed, and end up with a brief Yahoo news report as your legacy to mankind.
>
>
>
> RULE OF THUMB:
>
>
>
> DO NOT CLAIM TO BE "GOD".
>
>
>
> ESPECIALLY IF :
>
>
>
> a) you aren't;
>
> b) you're in a place where claiming this is a suicidal offence
>
>
>
> unless, of course, you are Jesus Christ, in which case, aren't you meant to be, um, a bit more impressive this time round?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Messages in this topic (3)
3.

Photos released to protect endangered Brazilian tribe

Posted by: "Tish" deborahs23@optusnet.com.au   morticia_its_me

Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:59 pm (PST)







Whilst on indigenous peoples..
some may be interested to read..


There are some pictures with this article if interested


Image: uncontactedtribes.org © Enlarge photo
New pictures have been released of a remote tribe living in rainforest in
Brazil which is thought to have had virtually no contact with the outside
world.
The astonishing images, showing curious adults and children peering skyward
with their faces dyed reddish-orange and toting bows, arrows and spears,
were taken by Brazil's National Indian Foundation (FUNAI).
Rights group Survival International, which accompanied the Government agency
on the overflight near the Brazil-Peru border, said their baskets were full
of papaya and manioc grown in a communal garden.
"Illegal loggers will destroy this indigenous people. It is essential that
the Peruvian government stop them before it is too late," warned Survival's
director Stephen Corry.
FUNAI has released similar photographs in the past and acknowledged that
Peruvian loggers are sending some natives fleeing across the border to
less-affected rainforests in Brazil.
First pictures of the tribe were released two years ago but the latest
pictures were taken by Brazil's Indian Affairs Department, which monitors
the indigenous groups using aircraft.
The remote tribe has also been filmed by the BBC for its Human Planet series

The coordinator of Brazil's Amazon Indian organisation COIAB, Marcos Apurina
said he hoped the images would draw attention to the plight of the
indigenous peoples and encourage their protection.
"It is necessary to reaffirm that these peoples exist, so we support the use
of images that prove these facts. These peoples have had their most
fundamental rights, particularly their right to life, ignored - it is
therefore crucial that we protect them," he said.
FUNAI says there are 67 tribes in Brazil that do not have sustained contact
with the outside world. Some are often referred to as "uncontacted" tribes
even though they have some kind of, albeit limited, contacts.
A year ago, rights groups sent a letter to then president Luiz Inacio Lula
da Silva voicing concern that the very survival of indigenous groups was
under threat.
Brazil's latest census counted more than 500,000 indigenous people among
more than 190 million Brazilians. Millions in the country, however, have
some indigenous ancestry.
Most indigenous people in the Americas descend from Asian people who crossed
a land bridge from Siberia, an estimated 13,000-17,000 years ago. One
notable exception: the indigenous people on Chile's Easter island, in the
Pacific, are ethnic (Rapa Nui) Polynesians.

latest images of the remote tribe. picture: uncontactedtribes.org


Fiona Watson, field and research director for Survival International, said
the people are likely to have acquired these through trading links with
other forest tribes.
"These networks have been in existence for centuries and I don't think they
will have had any contact with non-tribal people, because if they had, the
chances of being killed or contracting a disease to which they have no
immunity are very high," Ms Watson said.

the first pictures of the remote brazilian tribe
http://au.news.yahoo
com/thewest/a/-/world/8752099/pictures-reveal-remote-brazilian-tribe/















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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