Messages In This Digest (4 Messages)
- 1a.
- Re: The Burning Times. From: Kalimir
- 1b.
- Re: The Burning Times. From: Blackbird
- 1c.
- Re: The Burning Times. From: Kalimir
- 2.
- Astrological Musings: Indian Court rules that astrology is a science From: blackbird
Messages
- 1a.
-
Re: The Burning Times.
Posted by: "Kalimir" jai_ma_kali@yahoo.com jai_ma_kali
Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:08 am (PST)
Awesome post. I would like to add that on Febuary 14 1313 two million Jews were slaughtered on that day because they were blamed for the start of the Blaack Plague. The nuts like the falgualnt ( a sect of christions that floged themselves) and the Church which later came after these nut ball sects were convinced that Jews were poisoning the water supplies.
Also many Xtains still give up all personal responsibility, will, and humanity to their god. Unfortuantly Those who have become Pagans do the same thing. They worship Jesus in drag. This is done by most newbies and some experienced Pagans with old Xtain hangups. For the first few months of my study I was guilty of this.,
Kalimir
Jai ma kali.
On Feb 15, 2011 10:40 PM, Blackbird <blackbird_61@yahoo.com > wrote:
The Burning -
Today (15Feb1521) Leo X issues a Papal Bull to ensure that secular courts carry out the executions of witches
convicted of by the Inquisition. The Bull was a response to a courts refusal to carry out the work of the Church.
Source Llewellyn's Witches Datebook for 2011.
When I was a young man; it was Taken as Read amoung many Witches and Pagans that some 9,000,000 of us died in the Burning times. Today that number has been largely debunked, Patti Wigington gives a number around 200,000 and Issac Bonewits who coined the phrase, "Never again the Burning" was quoting a number between 50 and 250,0001 before he died, I believe.
But these numbers are hugely dependant on just when the Burning times begin; for myself, I hold to John Lashes opinion that the Burning times should begin with the death of Hyapatia, and the burning of the library of Alexandria; for here we see the beginning of the Massacre of the Gnostics, the Destruction of the Ancient World, and the purposeful extermination of the Mystery Schools to which we owe a profound Spiritual Heritage; 2 In her article at about.com Patti Wigington quotes a popularly accepted time of around the 9th Century; and Bonewits gives 906 in his Essential Guide to Witchcraft and Wicca (pg34) linked below; but IMHO this time is incorrect for it discounts centuries of murder in the name of the church. And of course not all those killed where Pagan, per se, a great many where Gnostics and Hypatia was Gnostic, or Agnostic depending on the Author, and I don't believe we know for sure but she we cannot be sure she was Pagan per se.
I can see the impulse to shave down the body count here; but IMHO we were killed by a common enemy, for a common crime. A centuries long war of extermination was waged by The Church of Rome against any spiritual vision other than that of the church; they did not see a significant distinction; Pagan, Gnostic, Heretic, we all made good kindling. Should we then draw the line, and say my Gnostic brother, was not my brother, though Gnostic Brother and Pagan sister burned together; No I believe we owe it to our spiritual forbearers, to bare fierce witness in their honor, and to the crimes visited upon them, we owe it to their memory, that they not be forgotten, we owe it to our children, that it never happen again; we owe it to ourselves, that we remind ourselves we come from good and brave people who did not surrender their beliefs in the face of vicious hatred.
And while we must respect the past as past,
we must not lay undo blame on Modern Catholics and Christians, for crimes of the deep past; that is not the intention of this piece and I hope it is not what you have taken from this essay; rather this I think.
If we Gather here to engage in "Witch Essentials"
IMHO those must include,
To be Aware of and Practice the Craft of the Wise in the Present.
To be aware of and Honor our Past.
And to Offer up a Vision for the Future.
I hope we have honored one of those essentials today,
Brightest Blessings, BB.
After preparing this essay, I posted it first in two adult only forums I participate in, and recieved a postive response. My friend Penny however added a good deal to my original that touched me deeply and that I feel I must add to this posting for it to be properly complete. Blessings BB.
--------------------- -----
Penny Wrote:
It was many more categories of people than Witches which were attempted to be exterminated. The Knights Templar were essentially wiped out and Torquemada, in Spain -- the quintessential figure in burning large numbers of people at the stake primarily focused on Jews. I once knew the historic number and it was in the tens of thousands that he was responsible for. This is not even figuring in those tortured and those who died in the prisons of starvation and maltreatment.
As you say, from very early in Christian history the attempt to destroy all those whose spirituality was different than the Catholic Church was firmly fixed. Later it was the burgeoning Reform/Protestant denominations which became known for rabidly searching out and torturing and killing anyone who was or might be blamed for being involved in the Old Religion. Of course, during the height of the persecutions the civil authorities went well beyond the Church in following after the insanity.
The thing to remember is that, whatever the provable numbers, it went on for centuries, not just generations and people went in fear all that time. I do not respect the debunkers. They rush to assuage the guilty consciences of Christians when modern Christians need to accept their own history and make their own vows of Never Again. Until an individual, a religion or any other category of people accepts that in the past -- beyond current change -- there were preceding behaviors which were completely wrong and deeply commits to not only never repeating those behaviors but accepts the moral necessity to oppose such behaviors in the future they will be forever tainted.
One of the things theologically screwed up about Christianity is the idea that what they are "saved" from is their own wrong actions -- that their own responsibility has been taken on by Jesus. Deep inside they must know nothing can do that. We are each responsible for our own behavior. Christianity is responsible for at least a thousand years of rampant bloodshed in the name of their God. That modern Christians may or may not approve (some do still) of such behavior does not change the reality and denial won't change the truth.
Penny
--------------------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
1. Issac Bonewitts Bonewit's Essential Guide to Witchcraft and Wicca Page 41
2. John Lash: Not in his Image
- 1b.
-
Re: The Burning Times.
Posted by: "Blackbird" blackbird_61@yahoo.com blackbird_61
Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:32 am (PST)
--- In Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups. com
<mailto:Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups. > , "Kalimir" <jai_ma_kali@com ...>
wrote:
Also many Xtains still give up all personal responsibility, will, and
humanity to their god. Unfortunately Those who have become Pagans do the
same thing. They worship Jesus in drag. This is done by most newbies and
some experienced Pagans with old Xtain hangups. For the first few
months of my study I was guilty of this.,
Kalimir
and in my original post Penny Wrote:
One of the things theologically screwed up about Christianity is the
idea that what they are "saved" from is their own wrong actions -- that
their own responsibility has been taken on by Jesus. Deep inside they
must know nothing can do that. We are each responsible for our own
behavior.
BB re:
For me, as a person with a passion for Divination; whose life these last
10 years has been one of actively seeking out the Seer's path; I find
this the most delicate issue;
I do feel it is possible and important to stalk your intent, to seek out
the purpose Deity intends for you, and to pursue that intent with
integrity; and part of that integrity is accepting, without question or
excuse ones own responsibility for ones actions in this world. By way of
example, while I consider myself in no way Psychic, and while I
regularly (as regularly as I read); receive from Nan knowledge I cannot
myself know; when I share that knowledge with the Q, when I chose the
words to express what has been shown to me in the cards; I needs be must
also share responsibility for those words.
I dont 100% agree with Penny's words above, but chose to share them here
unedited and accept responsibility for them here as though they were my
own.
Still I believe we all need forgiveness sometimes for when we Sin;
not in a Catholic sense of the word; but in the sense of the word as
defined by "The Master of the Key" when we Deny another the Right to
Thrive; whether by cheating on a lover; taking the last slice of bread;
or what have you; none of us I think has lived a life without Guilt; I
believe to do so is the definition of a Sociopath.
So we all need to thread that needle between Guilt and Responsibility
and hopefully find on the other side forgiveness.
Blessings, BB.
- 1c.
-
Re: The Burning Times.
Posted by: "Kalimir" jai_ma_kali@yahoo.com jai_ma_kali
Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:33 pm (PST)
_____________________ _________ __
From: Blackbird <blackbird_61@yahoo.com >
To: Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wed, February 16, 2011 1:24:14 PM
Subject: [Witch_Essentials] Re: The Burning Times.
--- In Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups. , "Kalimir" <jai_ma_kali@com ...> wrote:
Also many Xtains still give up all personal responsibility, will, and humanity
to their god. Unfortunately Those who have become Pagans do the same thing. They
worship Jesus in drag. This is done by most newbies and some experienced Pagans
with old Xtain hangups. For the first few months of my study I was guilty of
this.,
Kalimir
and in my original post Penny Wrote:
One of the things theologically screwed up about Christianity is the idea that
what they are "saved" from is their own wrong actions -- that their own
responsibility has been taken on by Jesus. Deep inside they must know nothing
can do that. We are each responsible for our own behavior.
BB re:
For me, as a person with a passion for Divination; whose life these last 10
years has been one of actively seeking out the Seer's path; I find this the most
delicate issue;
I do feel it is possible and important to stalk your intent, to seek out the
purpose Deity intends for you, and to pursue that intent with integrity; and
part of that integrity is accepting, without question or excuse ones own
responsibility for ones actions in this world. By way of example, while I
consider myself in no way Psychic, and while I regularly (as regularly as I
read); receive from Nan knowledge I cannot myself know; when I share that
knowledge with the Q, when I chose the words to express what has been shown to
me in the cards; I needs be must also share responsibility for those words.
I dont 100% agree with Penny's words above, but chose to share them here
unedited and accept responsibility for them here as though they were my own.
Still I believe we all need forgiveness sometimes for when we Sin;
not in a Catholic sense of the word; but in the sense of the word as defined by
"The Master of the Key" when we Deny another the Right to Thrive; whether by
cheating on a lover; taking the last slice of bread; or what have you; none of
us I think has lived a life without Guilt; I believe to do so is the definition
of a Sociopath.
So we all need to thread that needle between Guilt and Responsibility and
hopefully find on the other side forgiveness.
Blessings, BB.
In some of my rituals I honor those who were murdered for their beliefs during
the Burning Times.
Kalimir
- 2.
-
Astrological Musings: Indian Court rules that astrology is a science
Posted by: "blackbird" blackbird_61@yahoo.com blackbird_61
Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:33 pm (PST)
--- On Wed, 2/16/11, Lynn Hayes wrote:
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Beliefnet: Astrological Musings
Indian Court rules that astrology is a science
Posted: 16 Feb 2011 05:16 AM PST
Here's why I love India:
The judgment will be met with relief in India, where engagements are decided, wedding and election dates are chosen on the basis of detailed charts drawn up by revered astrologers. A day deemed "auspicious" by an astrologer can lead to thousands of weddings and traffic gridlock.
For years it has been dismissed by the world's scientists, but according to the Bombay High Court astrologers are officially their colleagues.
The ruling was made in a case brought by a campaign group, Janhit Manch, which sought a ruling against practitioners of "tantric" black magic and "fake" astrologers. Their "work" should be prohibited by India's Drugs and Megical Remedies Act (Objectionable Advertisements) Act, 1954 which bans false claims in advertisements.
The judges rejected the application, however, relying on an affidavit by Dr R Ramakrishna, a government deputy drug controller, who said: "The Act does not cover astrology and related sciences. Astrology is a trusted science and is being practised for over 4000 years."
This article goes on to deride astrology because of the failure of one astrologer to make accurate predictions. Just because astrology is a science, doesn't mean that it can predict the future any more than other scientific fields can. Read this post »
Controversy abounds over new planet Tyche
Posted: 15 Feb 2011 02:59 PM PST
From Space.com:
A duo of planetary astronomers has grabbed media attention by claiming a planet four times the size of Jupiter may be lurking in the outer solar system. They call the planet Tyche.
Many astronomers, however, say it probably isn't there.
The claim by John Matese and Daniel Whitmire of the University of Lousiana-Lafayette is not new: They have been making a case for Tyche since 1999, suggesting that the giant planet's presence in a far-flung region of solar system called the Oort cloud would explain the unusual orbital paths of some comets that originate there.
The Independent is more optimistic:
The hunt is on for a gas giant up to four times the mass of Jupiter thought to be lurking in the outer Oort Cloud, the most remote region of the solar system. The orbit of Tyche (pronounced ty-kee), would be 15,000 times farther from the Sun than the Earth's, and 375 times farther than Pluto's, which is why it hasn't been seen so far.
But scientists now believe the proof of its existence has already been gathered by a Nasa space telescope, Wise, and is just waiting to be analysed.
If the International Astonomers Union does decide that there is a new planet, it may not get to keep the name Tyche. You may remember the new planet Eris was originally called Xena by its discoverer, Mike Brown, and the planet Uranus was originally called Herschel after its discoverer. The name Tyche could be wishful thinking - she was a goddess of good fortune and seen to preside over world affairs.Read this post »
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All other Cups
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