joi, 28 aprilie 2011

[Witch_Essentials] Digest Number 2859

Messages In This Digest (9 Messages)

Messages

1a.

Looking for help with a Love Spell.

Posted by: "Rachel DeMarco" racheldiane31@yahoo.com   racheldiane31

Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:07 am (PDT)



Hi! I am looking for help with a love spell. I have run across websites that offer this but for $600 I can`t afford that & don`t have any money to do so anyway. If any one can help it would be appreciated. I need a little more help than what I have. My closest friend is the love of my life & I need help getting out of the dreaded "friend" zone

Thank you & Blessed be.
Rachel

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Messages in this topic (6)
1b.

Re: Looking for help with a Love Spell.

Posted by: "gaia_d" Gaia_D@yahoo.com   gaia_d

Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:48 pm (PDT)





--- In Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com, Rachel DeMarco
<racheldiane31@...> wrote:
>
> Hi! I am looking for help with a love spell. I have run across
websites that offer this but for $600 I can`t afford that & don`t have
any money to do so anyway. If any one can help it would be appreciated.
I need a little more help than what I have. My closest friend is the
love of my life & I need help getting out of the dreaded "friend" zone
>
> Thank you & Blessed be.
> Rachel
>

GAIA:

Hi and Merry Meet, Rachel --

First of all, NEVER pay money for spells -- The people/ sites who charge
money for spells are almost never authentically Wiccan or Pagan, and
are almost always scams. See for example:

http://www.wishbonix.com/scamalert.htm
<http://www.wishbonix.com/scamalert.htm>

Secondly, I'm afraid i'm going to have to say several things to you
that you may find difficult to hear or understand; I hope you'll take
some prayerful, meditative time to really deeply consider them, and/ or
ask any questions as needed, OK?

There are several things you need to understand about Spellcraft:

1. Yes, there are many wannabes and beginners who think that they can
just "get" a spell from someone and use it -- but that's mostly because
they know so little about spellcraft, magick, and Wicca.

a. Spellcasting is a very serious matter, and an ADVANCED skill set; In
fact, NOBODY should even *attempt* spellcasting until they have mastered
the BASICS -- like Centering, Grounding, Cleansing, Shielding,
Visualizations (and other imaginal skills), creating sacred space
(including Casting Circle), etc., since these basic Skills are required
to be able to do (successful, productive) magick; and until they have
studied quite a bit about magick -- what it is, how and why it works,
etc.

b. Spells should be created and cast by those who want them. IOW, you
should NOT just "borrow" a spell from a book, internet site or
individual, and expect it to work--

Spells "work" according to many factors, including your personal
(emotional, psychological, spiritual and intellectual) *investment* in
them -- in their creation, casting and outcome. A spell is (or should
be) "attuned" magickally to *your personal* energy -- Thus, a spell you
"borrow" or take from
someone else just cannot be as strong as one you create yourself.

c. In fact, it's rather easy to create a spell -- IF you understand the
basics of magick and how it works. If you don't -- you should NOT even
be attempting spellcraft, you should be studying about Magick and how it
works, as well as those "Basics" listed above.

d. It is considered bad form to go into discussion groups -- asking
others to give you spells for whatever purpose.
This relates to the above points: Spells are relatively easy to create,
and SHOULD be created by the person desiring them -- IF they are
sufficiently advanced in their studies and practice to understand the
basic principles of magick and spellcasting. If you cannot create your
own spell, that should be a
sign to you that you are NOT READY to be attempting spellcasting!

Here's how another High Priest put it (Forest Butera,
http://www.bluemoonwicca.org/spells.html
<http://www.bluemoonwicca.org/spells.html> )

An important thing to realize though is traditionally, witches do not
ask strangers for spells. There is never any need to. When you do, you
come off sounding at best a little naive, and at worst like a complete
fool - especially those who insist that, "Of course all witches
should help each other with any information they have." Wrong.
Traditionally witches understand the training that needs to come before
spell working and they don't need that kind of help. And even more
importantly, they are ethically obligated to not give information out to
anyone whom they do not know personally, and cannot trust to use the
information correctly. So, if you find someone offering to teach you
magic or give you spells whom you do not know very well, in person, then
you can be sure they have not been trained as witches and are not
qualified to give the information they are offering. This is an all to
frequent occurrence in online "chat rooms" and e-mail
discussions groups."

(Forest Butera, http://www.bluemoonwicca.org/spells.html)
Now yes, there are those who disagree (even strongly) with
this position – but I do not think they have truly, fairly
considered the (potential) ethical or magickal consequences of their
position; and I think their position is based upon a faulty, somewhat
NewAge notion that "knowledge belongs to everyone" – I
respectfully disagree -- it belongs to the Gods. Well-trained,
experienced, ethical witches do not give out, and do not encourage
others to give out, spells -- especially to those who are not prepared /
trained to use them wisely, appropriately or productively. It's
crucial to understand that Wicca is NOT primarily about Spellcasting; it
is a SPIRITUAL path to the Divine, the Realms of the Divine, and SERVICE
TO the Divine. Real, authentic Wicca is a deeply profound *spiritual*
practice that transforms us, and teaches us to understand, appreciate,
honor and live harmoniously with Nature, and the connections between
ourselves, each other, Nature, the Universe, and the Divine. Every
time you use magick or spellcasting, you "tweak" those connections -- be
very careful to do so carefully, thoughtfully, wisely. Whenever magick
is used or involved, there are going to be CONSEQUENCES -- and one is
-- whether they realize and accept it, or *not* -- RESPONSIBLE for
whatever consequences occur, through the use or misuse of magick.

There is a place for spellcraft in Wicca -- but Wicca is not
Spellcraft; and that place cannot be found if one is blinded by the
trivialized, banal, soulless perversion of Wicca that "spell-a-day
Wicca" promotes.

PART II -- Yes, there's more -- Re: Love Spells:

Love spells are considered an espeically problematic "area" of
spellcraft -- Most "love spells' -- particularly those that try to
force, convince, or encourage someone in particular to "fall in love"
with someone -- are generally considered highly UNETHICAL. Wicca holds
the right of every person to make their own decisions -- and to be
responsible for them and their consequences -- inviolate. Any spell
that attempts to coerce, force, or otherwise "influence" someone's
thoughts, feelings or behavior, is unethical. How would you like it if
someone used a "spell" to influence YOUR feelings???

Furthermore, such love "spells" almost always backfire in some way:
causing obsession, stalking, etc.

The very best kind of "love spell" is the one that YOU create and cast,
to make yourself more loving, understanding, confident and self-assured,
etc., or to "attract" "the right person for me at this time" -- NOT a
specific person, but "the best or right person for me at this time."

So i'm sorry, but there are many reasons why we cannot help you with
your request -- but i most sincerely hope that will *not* stop you from
knowing that you are most welcome, and becoming a valued, participating
member of our Group

Sincerely --

~Gaia

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Messages in this topic (6)
1c.

Re: Looking for help with a Love Spell.

Posted by: "Blackbird" blackbird_61@yahoo.com   blackbird_61

Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:17 pm (PDT)




BB re: Hi Rachel,
If I may post a few thoughts on your request, ... I don't doubt you can
find a "Spell Caster" who would cast a 'Love Spell' for you for $600 but
for myself I would have to seriously question the spiritual advancement
of a person willing to use spiritual energies in such a mercantile
fashion.

But to turn to Gaia's reply, where-in she points out that Spell Casting
is a Advanced skill that one should not attempt without a firm grounding
in the Basics, (such as Grounding, Centering, and Visualization.)

sending out energy in the form of a spell is rather like taking a shot
bank shot on a pool table with a curtain suspended over half the table;
You know where your Cue is, you know where the object ball is ... but
what happens to the Cue on its way to the Object ball is pretty much a
Mystery.

Have you ever read the Horror Tale, "The Monkey's Paw." In it a family
comes into the possession of a cursed object that grants its user 3
wishes; but the wishes always come out badly. So the Family wishes for
Money; and they come into it, a compensation for the death of their
son... it gets worse from there so I wont expand.

Besides the point for our purposes is without a sound training in
visualization, one is inviting all sorts of unexpected consequences into
ones life; perhaps not so dire or dramatic as in this cautionary tale;
but unintended none the less.

If I may suggest, I think you would profit by spending some time with
our group and by Purchasing a copy of Raven Grimmassi's Wiccan Magick.

Merry Meet BB.

--- In Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com> , Rachel DeMarco
<racheldiane31@...> wrote:

Hi! I am looking for help with a love spell. I have run across websites
that offer this but for $600 I can`t afford that & don`t have any money
to do so anyway. If any one can help it would be appreciated. I need a
little more help than what I have. My closest friend is the love of my
life & I need help getting out of the dreaded "friend" zone

Thank you & Blessed be.
Rachel

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Messages in this topic (6)
1d.

Re: Looking for help with a Love Spell.

Posted by: "gaia_d" Gaia_D@yahoo.com   gaia_d

Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:52 pm (PDT)





--- In Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com, "Blackbird" <blackbird_61@...> wrote:
>
>
> BB re: Hi Rachel,
> If I may post a few thoughts on your request, ... I don't doubt you can
> find a "Spell Caster" who would cast a 'Love Spell' for you for $600 but
> for myself I would have to seriously question the spiritual advancement
> of a person willing to use spiritual energies in such a mercantile
> fashion.
>
> But to turn to Gaia's reply, where-in she points out that Spell Casting
> is a Advanced skill that one should not attempt without a firm grounding
> in the Basics, (such as Grounding, Centering, and Visualization.)
>
> sending out energy in the form of a spell is rather like taking a shot
> bank shot on a pool table with a curtain suspended over half the table;
> You know where your Cue is, you know where the object ball is ... but
> what happens to the Cue on its way to the Object ball is pretty much a
> Mystery.
>
> Have you ever read the Horror Tale, "The Monkey's Paw." In it a family
> comes into the possession of a cursed object that grants its user 3
> wishes; but the wishes always come out badly. So the Family wishes for
> Money; and they come into it, a compensation for the death of their
> son... it gets worse from there so I wont expand.
>
> Besides the point for our purposes is without a sound training in
> visualization, one is inviting all sorts of unexpected consequences into
> ones life; perhaps not so dire or dramatic as in this cautionary tale;
> but unintended none the less.
>
> If I may suggest, I think you would profit by spending some time with
> our group and by Purchasing a copy of Raven Grimmassi's Wiccan Magick.
>
> Merry Meet BB.

GAIA:

Thanks BB -- Good info!

If i may say, i like Grimassi's book too, but i do think it might be a bit advanced -- It goes into some pretty deep/ complicated ideas.....

I would encourage anyone starting out (in Magick), to begin with something a bit more general and elementary, such as Amber K's "True Magick" -
http://www.amazon.com/True-Magick-2nd-Amber-K/dp/0738708232

Blessings -
~Gaia

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Messages in this topic (6)
1e.

Re: Looking for help with a Love Spell.

Posted by: "Blackbird" blackbird_61@yahoo.com   blackbird_61

Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:55 am (PDT)





--- In Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com, "gaia_d" <Gaia_D@...> wrote:
GAIA:

Thanks BB -- Good info!

If i may say, i like Grimassi's book too, but i do think it might be a
bit
advanced -- It goes into some pretty deep/ complicated ideas.....

I would encourage anyone starting out (in Magick), to begin with
something a bit
more general and elementary, such as Amber K's "True Magick" -
http://www.amazon.com/True-Magick-2nd-Amber-K/dp/0738708232
<http://www.amazon.com/True-Magick-2nd-Amber-K/dp/0738708232>

Blessings -
~Gaia

BB Re: Maybe so, but I've always found Raven to be an Author who
explains things well - and I believe even to a Lay Audience, but what I
like best about the book, and why I have repeatedly recommended it; is
that it provides a really sound Paradigm for Magick, and so gives the
reader a sound structure to think about Magick with-in and that IMHO is
priceless.

Still will have to put the Amber K on my short list and compare them. :
)

Blessings, BB.

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Messages in this topic (6)
1f.

Re: Looking for help with a Love Spell.

Posted by: "roberta.dinnie@three.com.au" roberta.dinnie@three.com.au   fowlsfeet

Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:56 am (PDT)



Hi Rachel,

Firstly "Ditto" on Gaia's sage advice.
There is however a spell that can be cast and will only work if
this person is truly destined to be yours.
Firstly, pick a place outdoors that is truly beautiful and
peaceful.
To this area you need to take 1 large checkered blanket, some
semi sweet wine and a basket containing tasty offerings for the
object of your spellbinding.
Once you have this in place bring the person onto the blanket,
ply them with the wine and offerings, gaze into their eyes and
hang on every word they say.
Share your opinions and thoughts openly without judgement or
contraversy.
Once the Wine and offerings have been consumed lay back on the
blanket with the other person and look for animals in the clouds
(or count the stars). Laugh a great deal and touch their shoulder
hand or arm frequently putting yourself in kissing range without
being intrusive.
If the other party by this time isn't leaning in for a snog then
you either need to let them know outright how you feel or resign
yourself to the fact that the other person is not ready to see
you as anything but a friend at this time.

I have my fingers crossed for you.

ILAL
Ruis*

---- Original Message ----
From: gaia_d <Gaia_D@yahoo.com>
To: Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Apr 28, 2011, 3:48 AM
Subject: [Witch_Essentials] Re: Looking for help with a Love
Spell.


--- In Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com, Rachel DeMarco
<racheldiane31@...> wrote:
>
> Hi! I am looking for help with a love spell. I have run across
websites that offer this but for $600 I can`t afford that & don`t
have any money to do so anyway. If any one can help it would be
appreciated. I need a little more help than what I have. My
closest friend is the love of my life & I need help getting out
of the dreaded "friend" zone
>
> Thank you & Blessed be.
> Rachel
>


GAIA:
Hi and Merry Meet, Rachel --
First of all, NEVER pay money for spells -- The people/ sites who
charge money for spells are almost never authentically Wiccan or
Pagan, and are almost always scams. See for example:
http://www.wishbonix.com/scamalert.htm
<http://www.wishbonix.com/scamalert.htm>

Secondly, I'm afraid i'm going to have to say several things to
you that you may find difficult to hear or understand; I hope
you'll take some prayerful, meditative time to really deeply
consider them, and/ or ask any questions as needed, OK?
There are several things you need to understand about Spellcraft:
1. Yes, there are many wannabes and beginners who think that
they can just "get" a spell from someone and use it -- but that's
mostly because they know so little about spellcraft, magick, and
Wicca.
a. Spellcasting is a very serious matter, and an ADVANCED skill
set; In fact, NOBODY should even *attempt* spellcasting until
they have mastered the BASICS -- like Centering, Grounding,
Cleansing, Shielding, Visualizations (and other imaginal skills),
creating sacred space (including Casting Circle), etc., since
these basic Skills are required to be able to do (successful,
productive) magick; and until they have studied quite a bit about
magick -- what it is, how and why it works, etc.

b. Spells should be created and cast by those who want them. IOW,
you should NOT just "borrow" a spell from a book, internet site
or individual, and expect it to work--
Spells "work" according to many factors, including your personal
(emotional, psychological, spiritual and intellectual)
*investment* in them -- in their creation, casting and outcome.
A spell is (or should be) "attuned" magickally to *your personal*
energy -- Thus, a spell you "borrow" or take from
someone else just cannot be as strong as one you create yourself.

c. In fact, it's rather easy to create a spell -- IF you
understand the basics of magick and how it works. If you don't --
you should NOT even be attempting spellcraft, you should be
studying about Magick and how it works, as well as those "Basics"
listed above.

d. It is considered bad form to go into discussion groups --
asking others to give you spells for whatever purpose.
This relates to the above points: Spells are relatively easy to
create, and SHOULD be created by the person desiring them -- IF
they are sufficiently advanced in their studies and practice to
understand the basic principles of magick and spellcasting. If
you cannot create your own spell, that should be a
sign to you that you are NOT READY to be attempting spellcasting!
Here's how another High Priest put it (Forest Butera,
http://www.bluemoonwicca.org/spells.html
<http://www.bluemoonwicca.org/spells.html> )

An important thing to realize though is traditionally, witches do
not ask strangers for spells. There is never any need to. When
you do, you come off sounding at best a little naive, and at
worst like a complete fool - especially those who insist that,
"Of course all witches should help each other with any
information they have." Wrong. Traditionally witches understand
the training that needs to come before spell working and they
don't need that kind of help. And even more importantly, they are
ethically obligated to not give information out to anyone whom
they do not know personally, and cannot trust to use the
information correctly. So, if you find someone offering to
teach you magic or give you spells whom you do not know very
well, in person, then you can be sure they have not been trained
as witches and are not qualified to give the information they are
offering. This is an all to frequent occurrence in online "chat
rooms" and e-mail discussions groups."

(Forest Butera, http://www.bluemoonwicca.org/spells.html)
Now yes, there are those who disagree (even strongly)
with this position – but I do not think they have truly,
fairly considered the (potential) ethical or magickal
consequences of their position; and I think their position is
based upon a faulty, somewhat NewAge notion that "knowledge
belongs to everyone" – I respectfully disagree -- it belongs
to the Gods. Well-trained, experienced, ethical witches do not
give out, and do not encourage others to give out, spells --
especially to those who are not prepared / trained to use them
wisely, appropriately or productively. It's crucial to
understand that Wicca is NOT primarily about Spellcasting; it is
a SPIRITUAL path to the Divine, the Realms of the Divine, and
SERVICE TO the Divine. Real, authentic Wicca is a deeply
profound *spiritual* practice that transforms us, and teaches us
to understand, appreciate, honor and live harmoniously with
Nature, and the connections between ourselves, each other,
Nature, the Universe, and the Divine. Every time you use magick
or spellcasting, you "tweak" those connections -- be very careful
to do so carefully, thoughtfully, wisely. Whenever magick is
used or involved, there are going to be CONSEQUENCES -- and one
is -- whether they realize and accept it, or *not* -- RESPONSIBLE
for whatever consequences occur, through the use or misuse of
magick.
There is a place for spellcraft in Wicca -- but Wicca is not
Spellcraft; and that place cannot be found if one is blinded by
the trivialized, banal, soulless perversion of Wicca that
"spell-a-day Wicca" promotes.

PART II -- Yes, there's more -- Re: Love Spells:
Love spells are considered an espeically problematic "area" of
spellcraft -- Most "love spells' -- particularly those that try
to force, convince, or encourage someone in particular to "fall
in love" with someone -- are generally considered highly
UNETHICAL. Wicca holds the right of every person to make their
own decisions -- and to be responsible for them and their
consequences -- inviolate. Any spell that attempts to coerce,
force, or otherwise "influence" someone's thoughts, feelings or
behavior, is unethical. How would you like it if someone used a
"spell" to influence YOUR feelings???
Furthermore, such love "spells" almost always backfire in some
way: causing obsession, stalking, etc.
The very best kind of "love spell" is the one that YOU create and
cast, to make yourself more loving, understanding, confident and
self-assured, etc., or to "attract" "the right person for me at
this time" -- NOT a specific person, but "the best or right
person for me at this time."

So i'm sorry, but there are many reasons why we cannot help you
with your request -- but i most sincerely hope that will *not*
stop you from knowing that you are most welcome, and becoming a
valued, participating member of our Group


Sincerely --
~Gaia


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Messages in this topic (6)
2a.

Re: Introduction and Mormonism

Posted by: "gaia_d" Gaia_D@yahoo.com   gaia_d

Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:52 am (PDT)





--- In Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com, Maura <sls756@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Everyone;
> I thought it was about time that I sent in an introduction, and this
post gave
> me the inspiration to do so.I am an eclectic, solitary Witch and have
been
> practicing for about 20 years. I tend to be wary of "organized"
religions,
> including Wicca and the reason for that is probably because I was
raised Mormon.
> Gaia...thank you for your post and for all the interesting links and
resources.
> I mean no disrespect by the following comments....

GAIA:

Hi, Welcome, and merry Meet, Maura --

Please know that many if not most of us, also tend to be "wary" of
organized religions.....

MAURA:

> I was raised LDS, in Utah and my family was LDS back to my
> great-grandparents, on my fathers side. I never remember hearing the
term,
> Heavenly Mother. Girls/ women were not even encouraged to ask
questions about
> church doctrine, let alone participate in the making of it.

GAIA:

You know, i've heard this from (surprisingly many) LDS women -- It just
breaks my heart because i know how much the doctrine of Heavenly Mother
meant to me, and to so many other women for whom it is of absolute,
primary importance, comfort, inspiration, and delight! It's very sad
that the first Christian Church to recognize and teach the existence of
the Feminine Divinity in "modern times", has become the one almost least
willing to mention, let alone pursue the topic.....LDS are never told
that there has been a "renaissance" of interest and available
information in the Divine Feminine.

Additionally, the "excuses" often cited by the Church for why this is
so, just don't make sense, but they are romantic and sentimental, so
many accept them without really thinking (I can elaborate on this, if
anyone desires).

MAURA:

Our sole purpose, in
> the eyes of the men who created this church, was to have as many
children as
> possible...that was our value. The LDS church qualifies as a cult, and
although
> they have managed to become accepted as a major religion, it doesn't
change the
> beginnings of the church, or the things that go on in it today. They
are in
> fact, a business, and one of the wealthiest entities in the US.

GAIA:

There is a *lot* of truth to what you say, i'm afraid.

Many people kind of throw the word "cult" around as a pejorative to
refer to religions they don't LIKE, or whose doctrines they reject --

But i think yyou and others here might find very interesting, the
following site:

http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html
<http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html>

It's the Isaac Bonewits' "Cult Danger Evaluation Frame". Bonewits was
(he passed recently) a very well-respected and much-beloved Druid-Pagan,
and i think he created a wonderful tool for identifying groups which
*really* do present cult-like characteristics -- and he's done it by
comletely avoiding the pitfalls that most people fall into, like
dogmatism, doctrinal prejudice, etc. I strongly recommed it for anyone
who wants to undertand the basic, essential characteristics, tactics and
tools of a cult.

> MAURA:

> To learn that Joseph Smith studied the Kabbalah and other religious
teachings
> does not surprise me.... he used many resources to set up a church,
and was
> very good at "picking and choosing" the teachings and philosophies
that he
> wished to incorporate into his, allegedly divinely- inspired doctrine.

GAIA:

Well, i don't think there's anything inherently "wrong" about
"borrowing" from many different resources -- Many people make the point
that metaphysics has many "universal" principles that can be found in
many diverse spiritual / philosophical systems, throughout the ages --

For example, Gerald Gardner "borrowed" from a wide variety of different
sources to create modern Wicca, including Kabbalah, FreeMasonry,
Rosicrucianism, Ceremonial magick (including the OTO and Golden Dawn),
as well as what he got from the "New Forest" Coven and 'Old Dorothy'
Clutterbuck, their High Priestess.

Regarding Joseph Smith's caracter, i'd like to present the following
article i once wrote for an LDS discussion group -- and please let me
assure you, it "irritated" just about everyone <rueful grin>!

I hope some here might find it interesting.

On Joseph Smith's Character - (c) By Gaia_d@yahoo.com
<mailto:Gaia_d@yahoo.com>

While it's certainly true that he had many faults, I think it's
important to remember that *nobody* is a one-dimensional character, and
Joseph Smith was no different; those who only see him in single,
monochromatic terms (either "good" or "evil") , miss a great deal: He
was a complicated, fascinating character.

In fact, i think Joseph Smith is a little like those pschological
ink-blot tests: He seems to bring out of each individual, whatever is
within THEM -- everyone sees whatever they WANT to see in him. Many LDS
overly idealize and sentimentalize him, while knowing little of his real
character or accomplishments; and many non (or ex) LDS demonize him,
while making the very same mistake -- they know little of the real man,
or his very real accomlishments.

IMO, Joseph Smith was a fascinating, flawed, and simultaneously very
gifted, human being.
He could be gullible, impetuous, capricious, prideful, egotistical and
vain.
He had a tendency to let his hormones run wild and over-rule any good
judgment he might have possessed; and a strange need to collect more
females than any five men could ever need or want. He had frequent poor
judgement in people and a tendency to make too-fast friendships with men
he should have known better than to trust -- and even to prefer them
over his more faithful, tried-and-true friends. He articulated many
great and noble values until they happened to interfere with reality,
convenience, and what he wanted (or didn't want)....

Even during his own lifetime, many of his own followers admitted that
he behaved and spoke less like a Prophet than a backwoodsman. Many
thought his brother Hyrum seemed more like (their notions of) a
"Prophet", becasue Joseph had a playful and animated, even child-like,
spirit about him.

But imo, it is as wrong to *demonize* a man as it is to "deify" him. I
think many have made the mistake of doing exactly what they seem to
dislike about his followers -- focusing on the elements of his
personality that are of most interest to (and prove) THEIR prejudices,
and being blind to anything else. In my way of thinking, that's just as
wrong, and prevents one from understanding and appreciating (and i'm
using that term in a very wide sense) the man.

The truth is that Smith was a very human, flawed individual -- but he
could also be remarkably, even amazingly compassionate, warm, friendly,
open, playful, charismatic, convincing, and deeply, profoundly spiritual
and mystical.

In fact, Joseph Smith was a *remarkable* Mystic - and anyone who wants
to be fair must view him in that light. By the reports of those who
actually knew and were close to him, he frequently launched into
extended visions -- some of which were simultaneously SHARED and
verbatim reported by those around him. Now i s'pose that someone might
call that "mass hysteria" if they absolutely cannot bring themselves to
imagine that a very flawed, fallible, rough human being could possibly
also have a spiritual-mystical side -- but then that's their issue,
isn't it.

Maybe as a psychologist i'm able to understand and appreciate paradox
and contradiction in people (and issues) a bit -- because i see it all
the time and in all people, and i think it's incredibly unfair to judge
a person and his entire life by a few very limited (and solely negative)
issues or traits. Do you know of any person who is either all good or
all bad??? Very few really are.

One more note, just cause i think/ hope our members are able to
appreciate this point:
I believe it's a sign of maturity and wisdom to *resist* either
deifying or demonizing a person. To the degree that we can do so, i
think it demonstrates that we've come to some peace about our OWN very
complicated Shadows and Brightness.

Blessings --
~Gaia

MAURA:

> Hundreds, maybe thousands of LDS members where murdered when they
refused to give up the >practice of polygamy.

GAIA:

That is a rather serious allegation --Have you *any* legitimate
historical resources to confirm or support it?

Please, let's remember that Paganism/Wicca in general, and this Group in
particular, tries to respect *all* religions, and to speak honestly and
fairly of them.

> MAURA:

> Like every other religion, cult or not, there are good people in the
LDS
> church....

GAIA:

Agreed!

Maura, We're delighted to welcome you to the Group, and thanks for
participating in the Discussion -- Hope to "see" you often!

Blessed Be -

~Gaia

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3.

A Beltane Thread.

Posted by: "Blackbird" blackbird_61@yahoo.com   blackbird_61

Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:54 pm (PDT)



Hi All,
Elysia over at Llewellyn has posted a Blog concerning and comparing the
English Beltane to the German Walpurgis Night; and I thought it would be
a good place to begin a Beltane thread; members of course are invited to
comment or expand on the Blog here as well as Llewellyn and to share
your own plans and or Traditions for Beltane here.

Witches and Wiccans around the Northern Hemisphere are gearing up for
Beltane, or May Day, this coming Sunday. Falling on Beltane Eve is a
holiday called Walpurgis Night, which has long been regarded as the time
witches would gather on a rocky mountain in Germany known as the
Brocken. While Walpurgis and Beltane have similar timing ... Read More
Here
<http://www.llewellyn.com/blog/2011/04/spotlight-on-walpurgis-night/> .
Brightest Blessings All, BB.

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4.

CDW- The Sun, Gendron Tarot.

Posted by: "Blackbird" blackbird_61@yahoo.com   blackbird_61

Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:11 pm (PDT)



Hi All,
My Daily Draw the other day was The Sun (Rx) from the Gendron Tarot
<http://www.anar-mura.com/tgimg/gd/tr_xix.jpg> , and it got me thinking;
with Easter just past, and Beltane just ahead, this is a wonderful time
to take a long moment with this beautiful card. :)

I actually had the good fortune to exchange a few emails with Mel in the
Late 90's concerning her deck and one theme that comes up time and again
in her writings and posts is how she spent 5 years in work and mediation
creating her unique deck; I believe this card is one of those that
demonstrates that long commitment to the deck.

The Sun is of course a hug Sun Flower, and the frame is dominated by
Quetzalcoatl
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Witch_Essentials/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qu\
etzalcoatl> offering a young girl the gift of a seed. For me this is a
very moving image, because in the Sumerian Tradition the Food Gift and
the Water Gift took pride of place among the Sacred ME; and I believe
Mel is Echoing that here.

The Fertility of Spring represented by the Sun(flower) the God, the
Child, the Hummingbird is summed up in that seed, that reference to that
most basic gift; the Food gift. Without the Food Gift, or the Water
Gift, all else the Gods might offer us is meaningless. As King Midas
found out ... <http://www.pantheon.org/articles/m/midas.html>

Yet we should not overlook the Royal Hue of this card, the card is rich
in the color purple, the color of Amethyst, and Psychic Accomplishment;
so while the Sun(Flower) and the Seed speak to the Rebirth of the
'Mundane' world; the rich Glowing Purple halo of that sun, of the Winged
God, of the Humming Bird; all speak to the revitalization of more
Esoteric energies.

In the end I think Mel has given us a lovely card, simple in its
composition, but powerful in its message. I do suggest you spend at
least a little time with the image itself and see what I says to you.

Brightest Blessings, BB.

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