Messages In This Digest (6 Messages)
- 1a.
- Re: Elish does it again! From: scott_bisseker
- 1b.
- Re: Elish does it again! From: scott_bisseker
- 2a.
- Re: Paganism... Alternatively From: druwinan
- 3a.
- Joining a Sydney Covern - Nuits Veil From: thefrancislee
- 3b.
- Re: Joining a Sydney Covern - Nuits Veil From: Ozpagan
- 4a.
- Re: 2012: Have Yahoo Pagan Groups painted themselves into a corner? From: Ozpagan
Messages
- 1a.
-
Re: Elish does it again!
Posted by: "scott_bisseker" nu_scott@hotmail.com scott_bisseker
Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:06 pm (PST)
Greetings Gavin,
Just a couple of thoughts which I seem to note as usual don't seem to come into any discussion of it.
> It is trash journalism because Eilish's record is the only thing that gives this story teeth.
Ok fair comment to a degree, but this sentance can be put another way to point out that the past record is precisely the problem that makes this such a drama isn't it? I mean, if this was just one instance of a circumstance where everyone shakes the head and asks: "But WHY OULD YOU!?" then it would be a very different conversation we'd be having.
But it isn't like that unfortunately. This is "the latest" not "a lapse" and again we find ourselves having to steer well clear of questioning what level of intelligence, foresight and judgement we expect from those who undertake public exposeure - let alone some level of activity to project themselves as some sort of authority.
>She isn't the first pagan to conduct a ceremony in a church.
Which I am afraid simply states what many already suspect - that poor judgement is not "singular". I cannot imagine what level of understanding would even ask for this - let alone agree to it. Given this circumstance the situation is mindboggling. Hell I am not known for being a "good guy" but even I would have responded with: "Are you out of your mind?"
> The bit in the HS article about her 'interfering with Catholic liturgy' is completely disingenuous based on the emails I have seen.
I take the point you are making about email, but surely the way I read the situation, the impression I had was that such would have been something that occurred not in an email agreement but on the day. Church men are notorious leery of agreeing to anything they might see as lessening the power, sanctity and effect of their liturgical demonstrations AND RIGHTLY SO. Ergo I wouldn't expect to see it in an email.
>And the description of handfastings in the article: another poster had it right - the context made 'heterosexual' sound positively louche.
I will leave aside the notion of Heterosexuality as louche as being crazy. I see some pretty crazy ideas about Pagainsm in general from within so I would not be surprised how others may see such.
Whether we like it or not, the public at large will not understand the context or meaning of any facet of our collective ways of life. Why should they? More importantly though to my mind, as I am sure your position reminds you constantly; we can't EXPECT them to whether we'd like them to or not. That simply isn't logical or rational - though that stance seems very unpopular in modern paganism.
> None of which means I am any less angry at her poor judgment - with her notoriety she should have run a mile in the opposite direction at the prospect of coming into contact with a human headline like Fr Bob.
Well this is precisely the bit that gives me the concern. At exactly what point does anyone claim that, (given the background which rightly or NOT the media will latch onto) any level of discernment is shown by agreeing to have a handfasting in a church after a church wedding involving this particular "dramatis personae?
I mean this sort of choice is all fair an good if your looking for that blasphemy edge but hey that points right at publicity doesn't it!? If you wanna tweak the churches nose then I am all for it BUT like jumping a car on a motor cycle there are right and wrong ways and it should perhaps be left to professionals!
> I suppose I am just a stickler for pillorying people for the *right* reasons.
I am VERY MUCH in agreement here - but as is usual in such circumstances will we ever see that happen? Everything I have seen smacks more of "for" and "against" (albeit in decidedly cloak and dagger fashion in some instances) with any kind of actual attempt at rationally asking serious questions about the real issues underneath the scenario in serious danger of being high jacked either way.
At the end of the day this situation is not and should not be about popularity or notoriety; whether or not this or that person thinks some or anyone is "nice" or whatever else nor should it be about what can be excused.
We should be asking real questions about what precisely leads people to the point where this lack of discernment (in all ways) is considered acceptable and indeed is allowed to continue without BEING seriously questioned.
Subsisto
Scott
I certainly don't envy your job - all teh more so as everytime there is some sort of blow up and nothing really much happens it sends a big message saying: "Oh hell it's ok .. don't fret!" to anoyone else. *Shrugs and shakes head* No dude, I don't envy you your position at all.
- 1b.
-
Re: Elish does it again!
Posted by: "scott_bisseker" nu_scott@hotmail.com scott_bisseker
Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:10 pm (PST)
Greetings All,
Sorry about the last paragraph coming after my end ... that paragraph should obviously be above the one that starts "At the end of the day" lol
Ahh my screen is playin trix on me today - or mebbe it is the pancakes I just ate distracting my edit! LOL
Subsisto
Scott
- 2a.
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Re: Paganism... Alternatively
Posted by: "druwinan" druwinan@yahoo.com druwinan
Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:45 pm (PST)
Hello,
I understand that Paganism (YOUR GROUP IS of VERY SIMMILAR KIND)is the belief of certain natural and human vibrations paralels.
Well, the important EXACT names (Gods, Heroes), ritual words spectrum as the base is the essence of Judaism system.
Concerning paganic names...
Of course, the names (Gods, Heroes, highlight Spells) are important.
This determines a lot, if in the analogs in nature takes a grandiose impression, illustrates the enormous constancy.
For example. If the Sun is a masculine gender name, then the brain is programmed, that a man is a large clarity lender and the best observer.
In such nations is choice to respect the patriarchal system.
If the Sun is a feminine name, then the observer is a woman.
In these nations, the women often associates their ovaries with the sun, the Sun is compared with the birth secret.
Smaller "heroes" (the gods, highlight spells words and so one) give impulse to vocabulary, an impulse to respect the certain words that have consonance (usually applies syllables) with the ritual names.
<<<>>>
But if we will see an important parallel vibrations (human – tree, human – thunder and so one) only, in this case the any Jewish telepat of Mossad reflection - telepathy would be a "harden pagan", nor the one who declares himself as such.
The certain nuanses of Effective reflection telepathy's system
(new kind of researching since 2011)
can be found in Yahoogroup "Atelepathy".
http://tech.groups.yahoo. com/group/ Atelepathy/
- 3a.
-
Joining a Sydney Covern - Nuits Veil
Posted by: "thefrancislee" thefrancislee@yahoo.com thefrancislee
Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:45 pm (PST)
My name is francis.
I earnestly want to join a Nuits Veil covern having read the 'Covern Involvement document(pdf) by Tim H'
I understand i have to participate in a workshop in order to be better acquainted to Covern practise.
Please respond soon and show me how and when the next workshop is to take place. (also, please make it travelling distance from Sydney as i do not drive)
francis
- 3b.
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Re: Joining a Sydney Covern - Nuits Veil
Posted by: "Ozpagan" timozpagan@witchesworkshop.com wwwozpagancom
Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:19 pm (PST)
--- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups. , "thefrancislee" <thefrancislee@com ...> wrote:
>
> My name is francis.
>
> I earnestly want to join a Nuits Veil covern having read the 'Covern Involvement document(pdf) by Tim H'
>
> I understand i have to participate in a workshop in order to be better acquainted to Covern practise.
Greeting Francis,
Good to see you've joined our online community.
There has been a slowing down of the practical workshops I run...not a cessation I hurry to add. During the last twelve months, this was mostly due to my love of the graphic design work I do, overseas travels and my handfasting. All these things take the finite amount of time there is in just a day, a week, a month and a year.
I do hope to see some of the smaller workshops and shorter retreats restarted this year. The WitchesWorkshop eGroup and our Facebook pages are the places I announce these events. I should add, it is also the place were others running similar events announce their activities.
If you are in a hurry I'd recommend you attend my good friend Kylie Allerton's monthly workshops at Pagenta' Cauldron. Kylie also runs occasional retreats. See her Facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/groups/ 8797647995/
Vinum Sabbati,
Tim
- 4a.
-
Re: 2012: Have Yahoo Pagan Groups painted themselves into a corner?
Posted by: "Ozpagan" timozpagan@witchesworkshop.com wwwozpagancom
Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:51 pm (PST)
--- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups. , "scott_bisseker" <nu_scott@..com .> wrote:
>
> Greetings Tim,
>
> I have expressed several times my gratitude for the work you have done for the various circles in one way or another over the years. This should most ccertainly include this Yahoo group AND the one on FaceBook!
Tim wrote: Thanks Scott.
Scott wrote:
> There will always be new technology arising to supersede the old. As Pagans, Witches, Occultists what have you .. our very existence proves this fact all too clearly. The situation I believe is clear - that it is not the circumstance that dictates but rather our consciously chosen reactions to any given circumstance.
Tim wrote:
I hope WitchesWorkshop will be around for a long time to come... along with me and all the rest of you. But is hope enough?
The observation that conversation, via uncomplicated email found on Yahoo, verses the visual enhancements that Facebook offers, is a courses for horses choice. At the back of this is my concern about the viability of the Yahoo platform in the couple years.
This concern is stems from the lack of invested development for the Group platform by Yahoo. These sorts of issues are raised on the 'big boy-girl' forums such as the Yahoo's "Group Managers Forum". They have no real answers either I might add, and have only inspired a complete lack of confidence in the future of Groups for me.
So the ugly question that raises it's thorny-head in my mind is, "What if Yahoo Groups just simply went away?" The users of Geocities know what I am talking about.
Vinum Sabbati,
Tim "ozpagan"
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Witches Workshop hold regular workshops see
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Keep up to date via our WitchesWorshop Facebook Page:
http://www.facebook.com/WitchesWorkshop
WitchesWorkshop Facebook Group
http://www.facebook.com/groups/4627561794/
WitchesWorkshop and Witch Camp Australia
http://www.witchcampaustralia.org.au
http://www.witchesworkshop.com
___________________________________________________________
The WitchesWorkshop egroup holds the expectation that
a tolerant and respectful dialogue be strived for in our
communication with other pagans, witches magicians, et al.
Members are encouraged to challenge anyone not adhering
to these principles & to notify owner.
info@witchesworkshop.com
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