marți, 2 august 2011

[WitchesWorkshop] Digest Number 4795

Messages In This Digest (13 Messages)

1a.
Anglicans set to collapse From: Ozpagan
1b.
Re: Anglicans set to collapse From: Mark Dunn
1c.
Re: Anglicans set to collapse From: Tish
2.1.
Re: Its Hallowe'en south of the border.. From: Caroline Tully
2.2.
Re: Its Hallowe'en south of the border.. From: frances_tdm
2.3.
Re: Its Hallowe'en south of the border.. From: Nisaba Merrieweather
2.4.
Re: Its Hallowe'en south of the border.. From: Matthieu Morelle
3.
Ingot God and Smithing From: Caroline Tully
4.1.
Re: Hallowe'en south of the border again From: Caroline Tully
5a.
Re: Book Plug From: frances_tdm
6a.
Re: wiccan bible From: Theresa Abbott
7a.
Re: Oh for joy, for joy, 'tis census time again From: Mark S Hepworth
8a.
Re: Fred Nile holds NSW hostage over school Ethics classes From: Ozpagan

Messages

1a.

Anglicans set to collapse

Posted by: "Ozpagan" ozpagan@ozpagan.com   wwwozpagancom

Mon Aug 1, 2011 6:13 am (PDT)



A very interesting report tonight on the decline of religion, and more specifically first in line is the Anglican diocese of Sydney. The report from the George Negus' report team on tonight's "6.30" program identifies issues such a lack of flexibility of the true-believers as well as intolerance.

http://ten.com.au/630pm-with-george-negus.htm?movideo_p=44087&movideo_m=121437

vinum sabbati,
Tim

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1b.

Re: Anglicans set to collapse

Posted by: "Mark Dunn" bratwulf2@bigpond.com   blackwulf2

Mon Aug 1, 2011 10:21 pm (PDT)



So does that mean one day St Mary's in Sydney may become a Temple to the Goddess in earnest? Instead of the veiled allusion or repressed reverence (depending on your POV) that it embodies today?
----- Original Message -----
From: Ozpagan
To: WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 11:12 PM
Subject: [WitchesWorkshop] Anglicans set to collapse

A very interesting report tonight on the decline of religion, and more specifically first in line is the Anglican diocese of Sydney. The report from the George Negus' report team on tonight's "6.30" program identifies issues such a lack of flexibility of the true-believers as well as intolerance.

http://ten.com.au/630pm-with-george-negus.htm?movideo_p=44087&movideo_m=121437

vinum sabbati,
Tim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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1c.

Re: Anglicans set to collapse

Posted by: "Tish" deborahs23@optusnet.com.au   morticia_its_me

Tue Aug 2, 2011 4:55 am (PDT)



Isn't St Mary's Cathederal catholic...?... George Pell and all..?
now that is a whole different kettle of fish.. I doubt very much that
George will be influenced by what an anglican type will do..


Tish





-------Original Message-------

From: Mark Dunn
Date: 2/08/2011 3:21:21 PM
To: WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WitchesWorkshop] Anglicans set to collapse


So does that mean one day St Mary's in Sydney may become a Temple to the
Goddess in earnest? Instead of the veiled allusion or repressed reverence
(depending on your POV) that it embodies today?
----- Original Message -----
From: Ozpagan
To: WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 11:12 PM
Subject: [WitchesWorkshop] Anglicans set to collapse

A very interesting report tonight on the decline of religion, and more
specifically first in line is the Anglican diocese of Sydney. The report
from the George Negus' report team on tonight's "6.30" program identifies
issues such a lack of flexibility of the true-believers as well as
intolerance.

http://ten.com.au/630pm-with-george-negus
htm?movideo_p=44087&movideo_m=121437

vinum sabbati,
Tim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (3)
2.1.

Re: Its Hallowe'en south of the border..

Posted by: "Caroline Tully" heliade@bigpond.com   willowitch2001

Mon Aug 1, 2011 7:47 am (PDT)



Hi Tim,

I do think there is a cringe factor with the 'S'-word. Even I cringe when I hear lay people mentioning it in regards to Witchcraft... not because I think it has nothing to do with Witchcraft, but because I think the 'S'-word is actually misunderstood and is very much affected by the material deriving from the false memories of alleged victims of 'Satanic Ritual Abuse' from the 80s, oh, as well as hundrends of years of bad publicity from the Church.

If Satanism has nothing to do with Witchctaft, then how does one explain Anton La Vey's method of Satanic Witchcraft? Is he misusing the term "witch"? (And the old retort that "Satanism is just the flipside of Christianity" is very outdatd when it comes to the Church of Satan - plus, not everything found in the Bible is bad, at least not the Hebrew Bible ;-).

How does one explain the deliberate invoking of the name, 'Satan', as well as 'The Devil' in many forms of Traditional Craft? We can pick the terminology to pieces - Does 'The Devil', when mentioned in regards to Witchcraft, historical or modern, equal 'Satan' - the fallen angel? Or does he not?

I my opinion, the increasing fervour in the denials and careful explanations to the press and whoever, that "Witchcraft has nothing to do with Satanism" started with the newly "out" British witches in the 50s, not because they were so concerned to identify the Horned God as "not the Devil", but *so they wouldn't get lynched* by a knee-jerk public when they revealed that they were Witches.

I'm not saying that Witches worship Satan... well, actually, I'm not saying that Wiccan Witches and types of Witchcraft derived from Wicca worship Satan, they don't, they worship the Horned God. Hell! Even members of the Church of Satan don't _worship_ Satan... he's more like an ally...

I like the portrayal of the Serpent in Penelope Farmer's book 'Eve: Her Story" - a feminist retelling of the Garden of Eden story, in which the Serpent is the only being in the Garden who innovates, invents. He is Promethean, a culture hero, as is Eve as well. He turns out to be a Smith, casting metal...

And back we go again to the Biblical smith, Tubal-Cain, and Traditional Witchcraft.

So.. while I do see the advantages of simply NOT discussing 'Satan' with the press, I also think the topic is a little more compicated than simply saying "Witchcraft and Satanism have never been connected".

~Caroline.

(in Cyprus, where there are two 'Horned Gods' the Horned God of Enkomi and the Ingot God).

--- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com, "Ozpagan" <ozpagan@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Caroline,
>
> It's important hear a variety of voices on these types of events. The group associated with the Mt.Franklin Gathering are very sensitive about opinions held about both the event and people connected with it (which is not entirely unreasonable), but what is troubling is the sanitising of people and history.
>
> For example Marion's view that Satanism has never been a part of Witchcraft is far from correct. Ian Watts (aka Simon Goodman) the founder of the "Castlemaine Experiment", the grassroots organisation that helped to establish Mt Franklin Gathering openly discussed his Satanic involvement with me.
>
> I think it would be true to say that most Pagans and Witches don't feel very much affinity with Satanism, but some do. Culturally most modern Western pagans start their lives brought up in a Christian/Satanic religious world view, before largely rejecting it and seeking the sources of the Old Religion.
>
> It's an interest subject this anthropology of witches; and you don't have to look too far into the past before you stumble across Witches in Europe with pet familiars named Lucifer and Satan. You get the feeling that these witches either had very funny sense of humour or else they enjoyed waving a red-flag at their persecutors. This practice still seems popular with some witches because I've numerous times come across witches' cats named Satan.
>
> vinum sabbati,
> Tim
>

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2.2.

Re: Its Hallowe'en south of the border..

Posted by: "frances_tdm" frances@templedarkmoon.com   frances_tdm

Mon Aug 1, 2011 3:11 pm (PDT)





--- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com, "Ozpagan" <ozpagan@...> wrote:
>
> It's an interest subject this anthropology of witches; and you don't have to look too far into the past before you stumble across Witches in Europe with pet familiars named Lucifer and Satan. You get the feeling that these witches either had very funny sense of humour or else they enjoyed waving a red-flag at their persecutors. This practice still seems popular with some witches because I've numerous times come across witches' cats named Satan.
>

* hands up for being guilty of Lucifer being included in one of my rites - tis mentioned in my book so when that is available, you can read all about it (should you so wish).

BB - Frances

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2.3.

Re: Its Hallowe'en south of the border..

Posted by: "Nisaba Merrieweather" nisaba.merrieweather@hotmail.com   nisaba_merrieweather

Mon Aug 1, 2011 8:07 pm (PDT)




G'dday. To: WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com
From: frances@templedarkmoon.com
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 22:11:46 +0000
Subject: [WitchesWorkshop] Re: Its Hallowe'en south of the border..

>* hands up for being guilty of Lucifer being included in one of my rites - tis mentioned in my book so when that is available, you can read all about it (should you so wish).

Aaaaah, Luciferus, Bringer of Light and Enlightenment - against the will of a Jealous God. Nisaba

.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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2.4.

Re: Its Hallowe'en south of the border..

Posted by: "Matthieu Morelle" lucifervulus_sa_kage@yahoo.com.au   lucifervulus_sa_kage

Mon Aug 1, 2011 8:43 pm (PDT)



Just so you know Lucifer is an angel responsible for reporting the sins of mankind to god. People got sick of him and demoted him to a demon... Then blaming him for pain and torment he because synonymous with Satan. Lucifer is Latin from the adjective lucis (meaning light) and the verb ferre (meaning to carry or to bare) making Lucifer mean light barer.

-----Original Message-----
From: frances_tdm
Sent: Tuesday, 2 August 2011 8:11
To: WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WitchesWorkshop] Re: Its Hallowe'en south of the border..

--- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com, "Ozpagan" <ozpagan@...> wrote:
>
> It's an interest subject this anthropology of witches; and you don't have to look too far into the past before you stumble across Witches in Europe with pet familiars named Lucifer and Satan. You get the feeling that these witches either had very funny sense of humour or else they enjoyed waving a red-flag at their persecutors. This practice still seems popular with some witches because I've numerous times come across witches' cats named Satan.
>

* hands up for being guilty of Lucifer being included in one of my rites - tis mentioned in my book so when that is available, you can read all about it (should you so wish).

BB - Frances

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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3.

Ingot God and Smithing

Posted by: "Caroline Tully" heliade@bigpond.com   willowitch2001

Mon Aug 1, 2011 7:52 am (PDT)



As I just said... in Cyprus there are two 'Horned Gods' the Horned God of Enkomi and the Ingot God - which of course associates the Horned God (a descriptive term, we don;t really know their names) with metallurgy and smithing, as he - the Ingot God - is standing on a copper oxhide ingot. See here (if that URL actually works)

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=ingot+god&hl=en&gbv=2&tbm=isch&tbnid=urD5TUuOFr8fzM:&imgrefurl=http://www.mcw.gov.cy/mcw/da/da.nsf/DMLcopy_en/DMLcopy_en%253FOpenDocument&docid=KuViTaD1A0zqEM&w=275&h=464&ei=hr02TqjjGY_VsgaErMi6Ag&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=244&vpy=47&dur=89&hovh=292&hovw=173&tx=102&ty=117&page=1&tbnh=148&tbnw=92&start=0&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0&biw=1192&bih=566

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Messages in this topic (1)
4.1.

Re: Hallowe'en south of the border again

Posted by: "Caroline Tully" heliade@bigpond.com   willowitch2001

Mon Aug 1, 2011 8:36 am (PDT)



Hi again,

>>Ian Watts (aka Simon Goodman) the founder of the "Castlemaine
Experiment", the grassroots organisation that helped to establish Mt Franklin Gathering openly discussed his Satanic involvement with me.<<

You know Tim, that's interesting because I remember that when I first met Church of Satan representative, Raymond McPherson, in about 1990 in Melbourne, the only person from the Australian occult scene that he asked me whether I knew, saying that he knew them, was Tuan: Simon Goodman.

In the Devil' Name...

~Caroline.

--- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com, "Ozpagan" <ozpagan@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Caroline,
>
> It's important hear a variety of voices on these types of events. The group associated with the Mt.Franklin Gathering are very sensitive about opinions held about both the event and people connected with it (which is not entirely unreasonable), but what is troubling is the sanitising of people and history.
>
> For example Marion's view that Satanism has never been a part of Witchcraft is far from correct. Ian Watts (aka Simon Goodman) the founder of the "Castlemaine Experiment", the grassroots organisation that helped to establish Mt Franklin Gathering openly discussed his Satanic involvement with me.
>
> I think it would be true to say that most Pagans and Witches don't feel very much affinity with Satanism, but some do. Culturally most modern Western pagans start their lives brought up in a Christian/Satanic religious world view, before largely rejecting it and seeking the sources of the Old Religion.
>
> It's an interest subject this anthropology of witches; and you don't have to look too far into the past before you stumble across Witches in Europe with pet familiars named Lucifer and Satan. You get the feeling that these witches either had very funny sense of humour or else they enjoyed waving a red-flag at their persecutors. This practice still seems popular with some witches because I've numerous times come across witches' cats named Satan.
>
> vinum sabbati,
> Tim
>

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5a.

Re: Book Plug

Posted by: "frances_tdm" frances@templedarkmoon.com   frances_tdm

Mon Aug 1, 2011 3:02 pm (PDT)



Congrats Caroline on being included in this anthology.

I have a number of anthologies produced by Bibliotheca Alexandrina (all rather good I must say) as well as Tess's "Whisper of Stone" so I personally would be interested in getting my hands on a copy of "Anointed".

BB - Frances

--- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com, "Caroline Tully" <heliade@...> wrote:
>
> Sabbat Tidings, I'm just plugging a new anthology that I have two chapter in. ~from Caroline (in Cyprus).
>
> Anointed: A Devotional Anthology for the Deities of the Near and Middle East. Edited by Tess Dawson and the Editorial Board of the Bibliotheca Alexandrina
>
> http://neosalexandria.org/bibliotheca-alexandrina/anointed-a-devotional-anthology-for-the-deities-of-the-near-and-middle-east/
>
> TABLE OF CONTENTS
>
> Canaanite Prayer I by Tess Dawson
> Canaanite Prayer I in Ugaritic Cuneiform by Tess Dawson
> Anointed by Tom Isham
>
> Chapter One: To Honor
> Blessing for the Morning Star by D'vora K'lilah
> O Thou Great Light by AdoniBa`al
> Shapshu, the Sun Goddess by Tess Dawson
> A Song to Enlil by Amanda Sioux Blake
> Atargatis by P. Sufenas Virius Lupus
> Hymn to Ishtar I by Rebecca Buchanan
> Mighty El by Amanda Sioux Blake
> Telepinu by P. Sufenas Virius Lupus
> Mother of Chaos by Amanda Sioux Blake
> Honoring Athirat, Asheratu, Asherah by D'vora K'lilah
> May Ba`al Bless the Land by AdoniBa`al
> The Hand and The Eye by Patrick John Larabee
> Dagon by P. Sufenas Virius Lupus
> Me by Michele Arista
> Ishtar by Rebecca L. Brown
> In Thanks to Enki by Amanda Sioux Blake
> A Midwife's Prayer to The Kathirat by Rebecca Buchanan
> Three Moons by P. Sufenas Virius Lupus
> Hymn to Asherah I by Rebecca Buchanan
> Reshef by P. Sufenas Virius Lupus
> Tiamat by Rebecca L. Brown
> Ahura Mazda by Amanda Sioux Blake
> Song of Seduction by Tess Dawson
> Asherah by P. Sufenas Virius Lupus
> Hail Shamash by Amanda Sioux Blake
> Allat by P. Sufenas Virius Lupus
> Hymn to Atargatis I by Rebecca Buchanan
> To Ereshkigal by Amanda Sioux Blake
> Ubelluris by P. Sufenas Virius Lupus
> Anat Astarte Asherah by Michele Arista
> Sumerian Incantation to Utu by Christopher Cressey
> Hymn to Astarte I by Rebecca Buchanan
> Praise to Rashap by Tess Dawson
> Peace of Tanit by P. Sufenas Virius Lupus
> In Honor of Kathir-wa-Khasis by Tess Dawson
> Hymn to Anat I by Rebecca Buchanan
> Star-Bright Inanna by Amanda Sioux Blake
> Palmyrian Triad by P. Sufenas Virius Lupus
> Blessing for the Evening Star by D'vora K'lilah
> Imazighen Priestess by Michele Arista
>
> Chapter Two: To Contemplate
> Anu's Chuckle by D. Nanos
> My God! by Rick Hartwell
> Nanna Ascended by Lori Joan Swick
> The Appearance of Ereshkigal in Egypt by P. Sufenas Virius Lupus
> Sermon by Rick Hartwell
> Quantity by Tess Dawson
> Ilu the Compassionate by Tess Dawson
> Musing on Etruscan Skies by D. Nanos
> Anat's Marriage by P. Sufenas Virius Lupus
> The Hungry Desert by Shirl Sazynski
> Devotion to Desert Gods by Daniel McElwain
> Opalescence by Tess Dawson
> Nikkal by Kari Dru Muether
> Nehushtan by P. Sufenas Virius Lupus
> Total Commitment by Melia Suez
> Torn Web by Rick Hartwell
> Prayer to Tiamat by Katie Anderson
> Hittites and Mycenaeans by William Doreski
> Hercules of Palmyra by P. Sufenas Virius Lupus
>
> Chapter Three: To Pray
> American Prayer to Ilu and Athirat by D. Nanos
> Shemah Yisrael by Steven Posch
> Purification by Tess Dawson
> Incantation to Fire: An Assyrian Ritual by Christopher Cressey
> Mighty `Athtar, God of the Eastern Star by Tess Dawson
> Shema by D'vora K'lilah
> Call to Inanna by Literata Hurley
> Community Prayer by Tess Dawson
> Spell of Iao Sabaoth by P. Sufenas Virius Lupus
> Prayer to Anat for Protection by D'vora K'lilah
> Winged Serpent Woman by Shirl Sazynski
> Prayer to Men by P. Sufenas Virius Lupus
> Prayer to Asherah I by Rebecca Buchanan
> Rashap Healing Ward by Tess Dawson
> Prayer to the Kathirat I by Rebecca Buchanan
> Hannahanna Work Verse by D. Nanos
> Bejeweled: A Prayer to Nikkalu for Abundance by Tess Dawson
> Nikkalu by Sekhmetbitu
> Invocation to Marduk by D. Nanos
> Wild Anath by Amanda Sioux Blake
> Dreaming by Tess Dawson
>
> Chapter Four: To Create
> O, Sauska! by D. Nanos
> The Su-Luh Ceremony by Christopher Cressey
> Tanit by Michele Arista
> Tanit Ritual by Michele Arista
> Carthaginian Bloody Sunset by D. Nanos
> Birthing the Synergy Wave of Tiamat by Andrieh Vitimus
> Facing Fear: Using the Call to Inanna in Ritual by Literata Hurley
> Inanna: She Dreams the Stars by Michele Arista
> Recitation and Prayer Beads for Ilu by Tess Dawson
> Diagram of Prayer Beads
> The Ritual State of Mind by Michele Briere
> Song for the Twin Gods, Dawn and Dusk by Tess Dawson
> Astarte Dance by D. Nanos
> Rekindling the Lamp: Exploring Canaanite Ritual by Tess Dawson
> Hunger by Steven Posch
> Breaking Bread: Sumerian Cooking by Richard Lyke
> Sumerian Solstice Tree by Ed VanDerJagt
> Ilu's Sweet Dreams: Balm Recipe by Tess Dawson
>
> Chapter Five: To Understand
> The God Choron: Enchanter, Exorcist, Enforcer by Tess Dawson
> Do the Judean Pillar Figurines Represent the Goddess Asherah? by Caroline Tully
> Asherah: Protectress of the Home II by Kristine Cummins
> Smelting the Golden Calf: Temple Sex in Canaan? by Tess Dawson
> Stele 1 by Olivia Andromache Lycourinou
> Qudshu: The Naked Goddess of Heaven and Earth by Damon Zacharias Lycourinos
> Stele 2 by Olivia Andromache Lycourinou
> Arinna, A Sun Goddess by William Doreski
> Ereshkigal in the Graeco-Roman-Egyptian Magical Tradition by P. Sufenas Virius Lupus
> In the Queen's Hands: Athirat, Goddess of Creation by Tess Dawson
> Aphrodite Hellenized: The Taming of a Goddess of Sex and Power by Caroline Tully
>
> Chapter Six: To Belong
> In the Great Temple by William Doreski
> Tyre and Sidon by P. Sufenas Virius Lupus
> My Little Astarte by Steven Posch
> Full Circle: Seeking Paganism in Israel by Natalie Kobets, Orly Mizrahi, and Tess Dawson
> Imaging Torah: A Kohenet Perspective by D'vora K'lilah
> The Happy Birthday of Death by Yakov Rabinovitch
> Souls of Shade and Stellar Dust by Patrick John Larabee
> Where Did the Hittites Get Tin? by William Doreski
> Tel Aviv by Yakov Rabinovitch
> Meditation for Peace in the Middle East by Tess Dawson
> God with Horned Helmet by Tess Dawson
> Encounter with Ba&#699;al by Sophie Reicher
> The Early Years of Writing by William Doreski
> Olive Oil and Myrrh: Ancient Canaanite Religion for a Modern Age by Tess Dawson
> Whisper of Tree and Word of Stone: The Return of the Old Religions to the Near East by AdoniBa&#699;al
> A Dream of Passion and Light by Hani-Ba&#701;al
> Kappu-Palm by Tess Dawson
> Canaanite Prayer II by Tess Dawson
> Canaanite Prayer II in Ugaritic Cuneiform
>
> Appendix One: Who's Who and What's What: A Glossary of Places, Personalities, and Concepts
> Appendix Two: Our Contributors
>

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Messages in this topic (9)
6a.

Re: wiccan bible

Posted by: "Theresa Abbott" lakotalady56@yahoo.com   lakotalady56

Mon Aug 1, 2011 6:08 pm (PDT)



thank you

--- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com, Matthieu Morelle <lucifervulus_sa_kage@...> wrote:
>
> No such thing as a Wiccan bible... If you mean a book of shadows witches compile their own... As for spell books go to your local book shop im sure they will have a new age section somewhere... If not look on the net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lakotalady56
> Sent: Monday, 25 July 2011 5:52
> To: WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WitchesWorkshop] wiccan bible
>
>
> were can I find a wiccan bible and spell book
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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7a.

Re: Oh for joy, for joy, 'tis census time again

Posted by: "Mark S Hepworth" mits@parraletic.net   mitswitchlist

Mon Aug 1, 2011 11:02 pm (PDT)



Hello Bill,

I am sorry to hear that pagan groups have been intollerant to other pagans.

It is disapointing, in my experiance we have a large number of "Newbies"
come into practising some form of Pagan faith, most of the time through
the more publicly accessable faiths, who seem to think they have
acquaired all the knowledge in the world form a 200 page book and are
going to "Make their Mark" in the world because of it. Some of them
stay, some of them move on. I would hope the ones that sit down and
listen to all sides of a discussion are the ones that stay.

Paganism is such a broad label, and something that we somehow need to
educate these new people on.

At PAN on the "About Paganism" section of our website, we talk about 5
major groups of paganism. Nature based, Re-Constructionist, Indeginous
European Faiths (Stregheria, Romuva, Asatru), Sharmans, and Ceremonial
magicians, (Although the last groups will hardly identify as Pagan).

After that some of the information tracks back to nature based faiths
but as a project, I have asked the committee to help make contact with
different other types of pagans to ensure we can put together as broad
and accurate a definition as possible for the site.

The problem then also extends to the census with Pagan (6133) listed
under Nature based Religions (613x).

The PAGANDash campaign is trying to help the pagans end up in this
catagory. Already a large number of different definitions exists under
Nature Relgions nec (no extra classification) (6139). With Church of all
Worlds added for the 2006 census in that group.

One of the goals of the PAGANDash campaign is to eventually present a
combinded submission from various pagan groups around the country, that
the classification be changes, and Nature based faiths be a catagory of
Pagan, and that Pagan be structured like it is in the UK (see here
http://www.pagandash.org/categories%20Sheet1.pdf ).

But for now, I am not going to ask you to put anything other than what
you want. If you feel more comfortable putting none, then please I am
happy for that. If you don't want to fill out more than a few things, I
would suggest when your census arrives, ask for a privacy envelope with
it. When it comes time to fill it out, write in the first page (that
they can see via the envelope) and then leave the rest blank.

All in all though your call. My entire focus for the PAGANDash campaign
has been to make sure pagans of all paths feel safe and secure writing
their path on the census by explaining ways of ensureing personal
privacy. The re-orginisation thing, that is going to take time and we
have to wait until this census is complete and available to the public
which should be in June 2012. So for now it is just about the Data.

I thank the list for their time in reading this e-mail.

Regards,
Mark Hepworth

On 30/07/2011 7:35 AM, barbtrad wrote:
>
> Hi Simon.
>
> Well I guess we agree on the tolerance bit. We probably all have had
> different experiences, but the worst intolerance I have encountered
> has come from neoPagans who just cannot accept the other people may
> identify as "Pagan" but NOT worship nature. Or adhere to any of the
> other newage clap trap popular with much of neopaganism. (Then to
> really throw them into a real tizzy, tell them you think the darling
> of the neo set Joseph Campbell has written the greatest load of old
> manure since St Thomas. Or even worse, that their revered Mr Hutton's
> books are no better)
>
> When I hear the calls for acceptance and tolerance oft emerging from
> this or that "Pagan" organization here to lead us into the light from
> our world of ignorance and darkness, I often offend by suggesting they
> look up the definitions of these terms and ask themselves if they
> actually abide by them.
>
> As for you not minding putting Pagan on the census form, hey Simon I
> don't have a problem with you doing that either. What I do have a big
> problem with is that I am told I must fill out their form or be fined.
> They already know who I am, where I am and a whole lot of other
> information about me I'm not sure I am comfortable about them having.
> Do they really need to have me give them that same information every
> few years? Yes.. thankfully the religion questions are not compulsory,
> neither should any of the others IMO.
>
> Bill.
>
> --- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WitchesWorkshop%40yahoogroups.com>, Simon Goodey
> <simonziki@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > I really don't mind putting Pagan on the census form, and being
> counted for my basic belief system. As a comparison to the Christian
> belief system I once heard that they have over 100 thousand different
> denominations, they all call themselves Christians but when referring
> to "that lot down the road, well they don't quite have it right"
> > Maybe our community should learn something from this and have a
> little tolerance and understanding of that "Pagan group down the road"
> who don't do things the way you would.
> > I am not being critical of anyone; this is just my point of view.
> > Â
> > Regards
> > Â
> > Simon
> >
> > From: Graham <grahfurn@...>
> > To: "WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WitchesWorkshop%40yahoogroups.com>"
> <WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WitchesWorkshop%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > Sent: Friday, 29 July 2011 11:57 AM
> > Subject: [WitchesWorkshop] Re: Oh for joy, for joy, 'tis census time
> again
> >
> >
> > Â
> > Thanks for the reminder Bill.
> >
> > For anyone who is contemplating filling out a census form, just
> mentioning that if convenient, it can also be done online:
> >
> http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/censushome.nsf/home/2011%20Census%20-%20eCensus
> > and registering a pagan-specific response is worth considering I think:
> > http://www.pagandash.org.au/content/
> >
> > Lastly, I just wuv watching these stimulating government commercials
> about sex'n travel...
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9NdoybGJpc
> >
> > ... OK now it's time for me to go run and duck for cover! :)
> >
> > BB Graham <waving a little white flag from behind a rock>
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: barbtrad <barbtrad@...>
> > To: WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WitchesWorkshop%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, 29 July 2011 9:51 AM
> > Subject: [WitchesWorkshop] Oh for joy, for joy, 'tis census time again
> >
> > Â
> > Howdy folks.
> >
> > Its here again. Bloody government asking impertinent questions at
> inconvenient times and incompetent bureaucrats threatening us with
> penalties should we dare to not comply. Then on top of that, we have
> the Pagan Dash mob thumping their drums and peddling their snake oil
> elixir.
> >
> > Be assured dear reader, the Evil Emperors that govern our sorry
> arses shall glean not a jot of information from any census forms
> visited upon the Barbarian's humble abode. As for the Pagan Dash
> brigade, then to them I suggest sex and travel...In short, they can
> rush off cavorting and rejoicing.( that's not what I really mean but I
> know my intemperate language upsets Tim sometimes so I shall refrain
> from suggesting that They (Crude word for intercourse) off.
> >
> > Your Jolly Old NeoPagan Friendly pal ..Bill
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (7)
8a.

Re: Fred Nile holds NSW hostage over school Ethics classes

Posted by: "Ozpagan" ozpagan@ozpagan.com   wwwozpagancom

Tue Aug 2, 2011 3:57 am (PDT)



Well it's a victory for Ethics in NSW!

In a surprise announcement NSW Premier Barry O'Farrell stated his government would not be supporting Fred Nile's bill to remove Ethics classes as an alternative to religious instruction in schools. (source ABC TV news)

What a relief. I think this sends an important signal and combined with the recent report on the decline of the Anglican Church (6.30, George Negus); we are seeing the writing on the wall in the cultural landscape of Australia.

The education of children in ethics marks the potential for a new generation of thinkers, free from religious indoctrination.

vinum sabbati,
Tim

--- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com, Iain Pick <iainpick@...> wrote:
>
> Pickup the article this morning, already forward to my friends in outrange. What happen to separation of "Church & state"? May be Fred is worried that Christens will miss out on any reasonable ethics instruction. As ex RC (or as Phillip Adams refers to us, LC), I leant my ethics outside the church.
>
>
> On 30/07/2011, at 5:16 PM, Ozpagan wrote:
>
> Fred Nile holds NSW hostage over school Ethics classes -- the following report should be of concern to Pagan Parents.
>
> http://www.smh.com.au/action/printArticle?id=2525012
>
> vinum sabbati,
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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