luni, 18 octombrie 2010

[WitchesWorkshop] Digest Number 4551

Messages In This Digest (6 Messages)

1a.
'Our Mary' From: Media Officer
1b.
Re: 'Our Mary' From: Brock Ulfsen
1c.
Re: 'Our Mary' From: barbtrad
1d.
Re: 'Our Mary' From: scott_bisseker
1e.
Re: 'Our Mary' From: Media Officer
1f.
Re: 'Our Mary' From: scott_bisseker

Messages

1a.

'Our Mary'

Posted by: "Media Officer" media@paganawareness.net.au   pan_inc_media

Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:42 am (PDT)



Hi all,

Some brief facts about the recent canonization of Australia's first saint, Mary MacKillop.

There are about 5 million Catholics in Australia according to our census statistics, and 30,000 Pagans. The $1.5 million donated by the Federal Government to the campaign to get Mary MacKillop canonized works out to 30 cents per Catholic. (That's without factoring in the money lost to government revenue by adding the the Mary MacKillop Canonisation Gift Fund to the list of deductible gift recipients.)

Based on relative numbers, the Australian Pagan community would therefore be entitled to $9,000 to see an overseas religious organization (The Covenant of the Goddess, for example) declare one of our departed friends (Rosaleen Norton, say?) as a Revered Elder.

And then there is the $160 million spent by the NSW govt on World Youth Day and the Pope's visit in 2008. That equates to over $900,000 for a week-long event along the lines of Euphoria or Eostre or the PSG, or $137,000 for a single-day event like Magick Happens.

Would we take a cheque?

Gavin Andrew
PAN Media Officer

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Messages in this topic (6)
1b.

Re: 'Our Mary'

Posted by: "Brock Ulfsen" brockulfsen@yahoo.com.au   brockulfsen

Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:48 am (PDT)



From the Government it would have to be a direct funds transfer, too
much chance of shenanigans with a cheque.

...Brock.

On 17/10/2010, at 9:42 PM, Media Officer wrote:
>
> Would we take a cheque?
>

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1c.

Re: 'Our Mary'

Posted by: "barbtrad" barbtrad@yahoo.com.au   barbtrad

Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:54 pm (PDT)



Interesting figures Gavin!

But let me play the Devils advocate here. Was our much revered Rosaleen a Pagan? Certainly a Witch, but perhaps not Pagan. Well at least not by today's definition. None-the-less a person all those within my circle of acquaintance would agree deserves at least the status of revered Elder.

And those 30.000 Australian Pagans... Would they all see Rosaleen Norton in the same light as do we? Were the Government, ( as unlikely as it would be), to open the moth eaten purse for Pagans..Who indeed would the cheque be made out to? Unlike the Catholics, who have a very centralized governing body, Pagans, it seems, reject any notion of such a thing.

Personally, I believe Paganism probably has more chance of wresting a few measly cents from the tight fisted government by banging the "cultural drum" than it has with the religious one.I do believe there would be a reasonable chance of gaining funding for "events" the like of those you have cited on cultural grounds...Far less on religious grounds..

There is an "event" up here that receives massive government sponsorship and millions in funding through banging the cultural drum. And it is considered by many of our resident "Pagans" as a Pagan event.(Although quite incorrectly IMO).

Myself, and most of those I associate with, do not identify with "Pagan". I wonder how many others out there are the same? Many Satanists, Occultists, Witches, Mages and the like do not classify themselves as Pagan. Were they to, I'm sure that the 30.000 number, (which I believe is a very conservative estimate anyway) may be a lot higher.

Bill.

--- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com, "Media Officer" <media@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Some brief facts about the recent canonization of Australia's first saint, Mary MacKillop.
>
> There are about 5 million Catholics in Australia according to our census statistics, and 30,000 Pagans. The $1.5 million donated by the Federal Government to the campaign to get Mary MacKillop canonized works out to 30 cents per Catholic. (That's without factoring in the money lost to government revenue by adding the the Mary MacKillop Canonisation Gift Fund to the list of deductible gift recipients.)
>
> Based on relative numbers, the Australian Pagan community would therefore be entitled to $9,000 to see an overseas religious organization (The Covenant of the Goddess, for example) declare one of our departed friends (Rosaleen Norton, say?) as a Revered Elder.
>
> And then there is the $160 million spent by the NSW govt on World Youth Day and the Pope's visit in 2008. That equates to over $900,000 for a week-long event along the lines of Euphoria or Eostre or the PSG, or $137,000 for a single-day event like Magick Happens.
>
> Would we take a cheque?
>
> Gavin Andrew
> PAN Media Officer
>

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1d.

Re: 'Our Mary'

Posted by: "scott_bisseker" nu_scott@hotmail.com   scott_bisseker

Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:47 pm (PDT)



Greetings All

An amusing aside about the recent canonization of Australia's first saint, Mary MacKillop.

My how the bar is lowered these days ...

They needed ... what .... two instances of (let's be frank) magical intervention and she is a SAINT!?!?

Geezuz on a Pogo stick! I wouldn't use the word ELDER till I'd seen a half dozen points where I am left shaking my head and saying "Power or Arse .. where is the fence!?"

TWO ... wow .. she must be muy powerful ... lol

Of course it might be pointed that I am being less than respectful .. but hey I don't got that much to spare ... though I must say I thought that the baloons with her mug on it were ... *DEFINATELY* a tasteful touch .... *WG*

Scott

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1e.

Re: 'Our Mary'

Posted by: "Media Officer" media@paganawareness.net.au   pan_inc_media

Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:53 pm (PDT)



Hi Bill,

You wrote:

> And those 30.000 Australian Pagans... Would they all see Rosaleen Norton in the same light as do we? Were the Government, ( as unlikely as it would be), to open the moth eaten purse for Pagans..Who indeed would the cheque be made out to? Unlike the Catholics, who have a very centralized governing body, Pagans, it seems, reject any notion of such a thing.
>

And quite right. But to address your first point, I don't know whether all 5 million+ Catholics (a very large percentage of which only set foot in church for hatches, matches or dispatches – and blithely ignore Church dogma about sex before marriage, contraception, divorce, IVF etc.) had a strong opinion on the sanctity of Mary MacKillop. I doubt the question was put to them.

As to your second and excellent point about who gets the cheque, a question in turn: if an organization such as PAN or UPCoA or another were seeking funding for projects that would benefit the Pagan community as a whole and not just its own members, shouldn't those projects be considered on their merits (as well the organization's capacity to deliver, of course)?

> Personally, I believe Paganism probably has more chance of wresting a few measly cents from the tight fisted government by banging the "cultural drum" than it has with the religious one.I do believe there would be a reasonable chance of gaining funding for "events" the like of those you have cited on cultural grounds...Far less on religious grounds..
>

I strongly suspect you are right, and it is something worth keeping in mind.

Gavin Andrew
PAN media officer

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1f.

Re: 'Our Mary'

Posted by: "scott_bisseker" nu_scott@hotmail.com   scott_bisseker

Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:56 pm (PDT)



Greetings Bill, All,

> But let me play the Devils advocate here. Was our much revered Rosaleen a Pagan? Certainly a Witch, but perhaps not Pagan. Well at least not by today's definition. None-the-less a person all those within my circle of acquaintance would agree deserves at least the status of revered Elder.

Yup - the revered part comes when the head shaking I mentioned goes beyond into - ok "Power AND Arse indivisable!"

> Myself, and most of those I associate with, do not identify with "Pagan". I wonder how many others out there are the same? Many Satanists, Occultists, Witches, Mages and the like do not classify themselves as Pagan. Were they to, I'm sure that the 30.000 number, (which I believe is a very conservative estimate anyway) may be a lot higher.

True true and though often I "hais me doots" about this bunch (but rarely as often as some of them have had of me!) it does remind me of something I read ... (From the Five Point screed )

" 2) STRICT TAXATION OF ALL CHURCHES -- If churches were taxed for
all their income and property, they'd crumble overnight of their
own obsolescence, and the National Debt would be wiped out as
quickly. The productive, the creative, the resourceful should be
subsidized. So long as the useless and incompetent are getting
paid, they should be heavily taxed."

(4. Satanism as seen by the Church of Satan, 4.1. Our philosophies, http://www.faqs.org/faqs/religions/satanism/cos/)

And to my mind (Though I am as greedy as the next man) it makes em all the better for such a stance! If it peeves me that my tax dollars can go to religious cross waving loonies of one colour rather than roads, education and hospitals .. than I must regretfully admit it peeves it it'd go to any other colour as well.

*Shrugs and Grins*

Scott
(Straddling that Electric Fence with a sheen of sweat on the brow)

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