joi, 28 octombrie 2010

[WitchesWorkshop] Digest Number 4560

Australian Pagans, Witches + Paganism

Messages In This Digest (15 Messages)

Messages

1a.

Re: Remembrance List - research needed

Posted by: "Mark S Hepworth" mits@parraletic.net   mitswitchlist

Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:25 am (PDT)



Hello Frances,

Is this only for this last solar year?

Regards,
Mark Hepworth

On 27/10/2010 1:53 PM, frances_tdm wrote:
>
> Sorry - forgot to mention that two names came to my mind when George
> contacted me were Hummy and Simon Goodman.
>
> If anyone is able to provide a short bio about these two gentlemen for
> George, it would also be most appreciated.
>
> BB - Frances
>
> --- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WitchesWorkshop%40yahoogroups.com>, "frances_tdm"
> <lunanoire1@...> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings All
> >
> > I thought I had posted a similar request but can't seem to find it
> in the archives so thought I would forward an email I have also
> received re the "Samhain" Remembrance List. Yes, I know that it's
> Bealtaine here in the Southern Hemisphere but there is a list being
> constructed and, well the rest is in the email.
> >
> > BB - Frances
> >
> >
> > Greetings all,
> >
> > Posted below is an email I received on the Yahoo Group Email_Witches
> from George Knowles, the owner of the group and the related website:
> >
> > www.controverscial.com
> >
> > George has asked if help can be provided with the making of a
> remembrance list of past pagan pioneers, founders and elders. Please,
> if anyone can make any recommendations for additions to the list
> appearing below, it would be very much appreciated - either by posting
> here at WitchesWorkshop, or emailing myself direct at
> >
> > grahfurn@...
> >
> > or George at
> >
> > themaninblackuk2001@...
> >
> > Where possible, please provide their names, dates of birth/death,
> and a brief note about who they were and why they should be included.
> >
> > Many thanks and blessings, Graham.
> >
>
>

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2.

Help please - can anyone add to a remembrance list of past pagan pio

Posted by: "Graham" grahfurn@yahoo.com.au   grahfurn

Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:30 am (PDT)



Greetings all,

Posted below is an email from George Knowles, the owner of the website:
www.controverscial.com

George has asked if help can be provided with the making of a remembrance list of past pagan pioneers, founders and elders. Please, if anyone can make any recommendations for additions to the list appearing below, it would be very much appreciated - either by posting here at WitchesWorkshop, or emailing myself direct
at
grahfurn@yahoo.com.au
or George at
themaninblackuk2001@yahoo.com

Where possible, please provide their names, dates of birth/death, and a brief note about who they were and why they should be included.

Many thanks and blessings, Graham.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hail Ho Graham and Frances.
 
Merry we meet
 
I hope I find you both well??? I wonder if I may ask for your help???
I was contacted by Oberon Zell-Ravenheart earlier this week asking for
help in constructing a list of contemporary departed Pagan Founders,
Pioneers and Elders who've died over the past 100 years. The idea is to
use such a list over this Samhain and include it in your rites, workings
and celebrations with a few word of commemoration. So far working
together we have expanded the original list, which can be found at: http://www.earthtraditions.org/remembrance.htm  but
there are still a number of names for whom we have so far been unable
to find exact dates of birth or death, and we now need help in
completing this info (see full list below). As can be seen, for some we
just have the year of birth or death, but not the day or month, while
for others we don't even know the years of either birth or death. Can
you
help please??? If you don't know this information yourself, would you
please pass this request along to someone else who might??? Finally, if
you know of any other comparably significant Pagan Founders, Pioneers
and Elders who have died over the past 100 years, and they are not yet
on this list, please send me their names, dates of birth/death, and a
brief note about who they were and why they should be included here.
When completed as best we can, the final list will replace the current
one at: http://www.earthtraditions.org/remembrance.htm
 
Here's the list so far:
 
What is Remembered, Lives…
Departed Pagan Pioneers, Founders and Elders
(listed in chronological order of death)
 
Arthur Edward Waite (10/2/1857-5/19/1943)
Dion Fortune (Violet Mary Firth Evans) (12/6/1890-1/8/1946)
Aleister Crowley (10/12/1875-12/1/1947)
Pamela Colman-Smith (Pixie) (2/16/1878-9/18/1951)
Old Dorothy Clutterbuck (1/19/1880–1/12/1951)
Lydia Becket ( Aradian Temple of Diana; Lawrence Museum of Magic & Witchcraft, d. 1952)
Austin Osman Spare (12/30/1886-5/15/1956)
Franz Bardon (12/1/1909-7/10/1958)
Margaret Alice Murray (7/13/1863-11/13/1963)
Gerald Gardner (6/13/1884-2/12/1964)
Robert Cochrane/Roy Bowers (1734 Tradition) (1/26/1931-7/3/1966)
Norman Lindsay (Australian Pagan artist) (2/22/1879-11/21/1969)
Gleb Evgenievich Botkin (Church of Aphrodite—1930's) (1900-12/1969)
Arnold Crowther (10/7/1909-5/1/1974)
Edith Woodford-Grimes (Dafo) (12/18/1887-1975)
Phillip Peter Ross Nichols (6/28/1902-4/30/1975)
Charles Cardell (Rex Nemorensis/The Fish) (1892-1977)
W. Holman Keith (Neo-Dianic Faith) (d. late '70s)
Bonnie Sherlock (Delphic Coven, Lander, WY) (d. late '70s)
Rosaleen Miriam Norton ( Australia ) (10/2/1917-12/5/1979)
John Score (8/1914-12/30/1979)
Sybil Leek (Diary of a Witch) (2/22/1917-10/26/1982)
Monique Campbell Wilson (Olwen) (1923-1982)
Gwydion Pendderwen (The Faerie Shaman) (5/21/1946-11/9/1982)
George "Pat" Patterson (Georgian Wicca, Bakersfield , CA ) (d. 1984)
Lady Gwen Thomson (NECTW) (9/16/1928-5/22/1986)
"Grandmaster Eli" (Barney C. Taylor) (Druidic Craft of the Wise) (9/22/1917-11/15/1987)
Alex Sanders (Orrell Alexander Carter) (King of the Alexandrian Witches) (6/6/1926-4/30/1988)
Edmund Buczynski (Lord Hermes) (Minoan Brotherhood, NYC) (d. 1989)
Herman Slater (Magickal Childe, NYC) (1935-7/9/1992)
William G. Gray (1913-1992)
Scott Cunningham (6/27/1956-3/28/1993)
Lord Theodore Mills (d. 1996)
Ayeisha (KAM, Baltimore-DC area) (d. 1998)
Doreen Val iente (Ameth) (1/4/1922-9/1/1999)
Cecil Hugh Williamson (9/18/1909-12/9/1999)
Stewart Farrar (Alexandrian Wicca , Ireland ) (6/28/1916-2/7/2000)
Leo Louis Martello (Sicilian Strega, NYC) (9/26/1030-6/29/2000)
Victor Henry Anderson (Feri) (5/21/1917-9/20/2001)
Eleanor Ray Bone (Artemis) (1910-9/21/2001)
Pauline Campanelli (1/251943-11/29/2001)
Jessie Wicker Bell "Lady Sheba" - 18th July 1920 - 20th March 2002
Charles Clark (26th April 1930-17th August 2002)
Nelson White (The White Light) (10/29/1938-8/23/2003)
Donald Harrison ( Church of Eternal Source) (1931-2004)
Alison Harlow - 29th of August 1934 - 13th June 2004
Joseph "Bearwalker" Wilson (brought 1734 Tradition to U.S. ) (11th December 1942 - 04th August 2004)
Lady Circe ( Alliance of the Old Religion [AOTOR]) (9/8/1921-5/29/2004)
Albert N. Webb (aka Ur ) (West Coast Eclectic Elder) (1/8/1947-1/7/2005)
Elizabeth Pepper Ca Costa (The Witch's Almanac) (12/7/1923-7/14/2005)
Lady Galadriel (1956-2006)
Frederick MacLaren Adams (Feraferia) (1928-8/9/2008)
Cora Anderson (wife of Victor) (Feri) (1915-2008)
Lady Phoenix (Mimi Rohwer) (HPS & National Director First Celtic Wiccan Church, Inc.) (1932-1/22/2008)
Marion Weinstein (Natural Magic) (5/19/1939-7/1/2009)
Ted Andrews - 16th July 1952 - 24th October 2009
Norman Nelson (Reformed Druids of North America ) (d. 2009)
Svetlana Butyrin (wife of Freed Adams) (Feraferia) (1924-2010)
Roy 'Cuchulainn' Moorman (11/18/1957-3/1/2010)
Harold Moss ( Church of Eternal Source) (1/30/1944-7/15/2010)
Robin Goodfellow (d. 5/7/2010)
Alexei Kondratiev (1949-5/28/2010)
Phillip Emmons Isaac Bonewits (ADF) (10/1/1949-8/12/2010)
Lady Sintana (House of Ravenwood) (1937-9/17/2010)
 

Dates (at least years) of birth and/or death needed:
 
Ciarriadhe (Kerry Harvey) of Daughters of the Triple Goddess
Bill & Helen Mohs of the Mohsians
Dr. Cornelius Lyle
 

Others who have significantly influenced our modern Pagan world, and have now left us:
 
Charles Godfrey Leland - 15th of August 1824 - 20th of March 1903
S. L. MacGregor-Mathers - 8th of January 1854 - 20th November 1918
William Butler Yeats - 13th June 1865 - 28th January 1939
Sir James George Frazer (1/1/1854-5/7/1941)
Montague Summers - 10th of April 1880 - 10th of August 1948
Eric Neumann (1/23/1905-11/5/1960)
Aldous Huxley (7/26/1894-11/22/1963)
Abraham Maslow (4/1/1908-6/8/1970)
J.R.R. Tolkien (1/3/1892-9/2/1973)
Buckminster Fuller (7/12/1895-7/1/1983)
Francis Israel Regardie (11/17/1907-3/10/1985)
Theodore Sturgeon (2/26/1918-5/8/1985)
Robert Graves (7/24/1895-12/7/1985)
Joseph John Campbell (3/26/1904-10/30/1987)
Robert Anson Heinlein (7/7/1907-5/8/1988)
Manly Palmer Hall (18th March 1901 - 29th August 1990)
Gene Roddenberry (8/19/1921-10/24/1991)
Robert Shea (2/14/1933-3/10/1994)
Margaret St Clair (2/17/1911-11/22/1995)
Idries Shah (6/16/1924-11/23/1996)
Timothy Leary (10/22/1920-5/31/1996)
Carlos Castañeda (12/25/1925-4/27/1998)
Marion Zimmer Bradley (6/3/1930-9/25/1999)
Terrence McKenna (11/16/1946-4/3/2000)
Robert Anton Wilson (1/18/1932-1/11/2007)
Albert Hoffman (1/11/1906-4/29/2008)
 
And so many others we have known whose lives and works made our Pagan
world what it is today. We shall not see their like again.
　
As you can see, the above list is predominantly American, and while I
have added as many English names as I can, so far I see only Roseleen
Norton representing Australia. Perhaps you could maybe add in some
more??? Many thanks for your help :-)
 
Best Wishes.
 
Merry we part.
 
George Knowles (Man in Black).
E-mail - George@controverscial.com
or - themaninblackuk2001@yahoo.com
Website - http://www.controverscial.com
Group owner - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Email_Witches
 
Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall not be disappointed.

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3a.

Fundamentals of Witchcraft Class - Presented by New Pagan Journeys

Posted by: "New Pagan Journeys" friends@newpaganjourneys.com   new_pagan_journeys

Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:31 am (PDT)



Hello Witches,

New Pagan Journeys would like to take the opportunity to invite those in our
community who would like to learn more about Witchcraft, to join our
Fundamentals of Witchcraft Class.

This 9 week course teaches the fundamentals of Witchcraft. Get to know what
Witch Craft is and what it is not. What the differences are between Wicca
and Witchcraft, who can call themselves witches? You will also get to learn
some popular folklore, spell crafting, affirmations and exercises.

Donation: $125.00 for 9 week session

Registration Starts Now

Please call 503-488-5486 to register or come and walk on in .

Learning Objectives:

. What is a witch, and what a witch is not- debunking those age old
stereotypes

. History, Theology, and the Burning times

. The difference between Witchcraft, Wicca, and Magicians-what's the
difference?

. Energy Play

. Folklore and Herb Craft

. Magick, Spell Crafting and Meditation- The law of attraction.

. Cleansing and Consecration

. Divination and Chakras

. Creating a Book of Shadows, or Grimoir

. Casting a protective Circle

Private Tutoring Only, Groups and couples welcomed! All classes will be
about 2 hours long. Course Material will be available for purchase on NPJ
Online Store.

For more information about this class, please feel free to contact Lilith
Silverkrow at: <mailto:lilithsilverkrow@newpaganjourneys.com>
lilithsilverkrow@newpaganjourneys.com, or you can stop by our local shop in
Tigard or you can give us a call! We'll be happy to fill you in on the
details. Space is limited to 15 people, and classes are filling up fast.

Lilith Silverkrow

Owner, Shamanic Soul Coach

<mailto:LilithSilverkrow@newpaganjourneys.com>
LilithSilverkrow@newpaganjourneys.com

<http://www.newpaganjourneys.com> http://www.newpaganjourneys.com

New Pagan Journeys

11945 SW Pacific Highway, Suite 306

Tigard, Oregon 97223

(503)488-5486

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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3b.

Re: Fundamentals of Witchcraft Class - Presented by New Pagan Journe

Posted by: "M Lycett" megggz@netspace.net.au   mmorrigu

Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:40 am (PDT)



Oh, pulease!

Wrong list honey, doubt you'll find any American 'beginners' here

M
----- Original Message -----
From: "New Pagan Journeys" <friends@newpaganjourneys.com>
To: <WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 5:13 AM
Subject: [WitchesWorkshop] Fundamentals of Witchcraft Class - Presented by
New Pagan Journeys

> Hello Witches,
>
> New Pagan Journeys would like to take the opportunity to invite those in
> our
> community who would like to learn more about Witchcraft, to join our
> Fundamentals of Witchcraft Class.
>
> This 9 week course teaches the fundamentals of Witchcraft. Get to know
> what
> Witch Craft is and what it is not. What the differences are between Wicca
> and Witchcraft, who can call themselves witches? You will also get to
> learn
> some popular folklore, spell crafting, affirmations and exercises.
>
> Donation: $125.00 for 9 week session
>
> Registration Starts Now
>
> Please call 503-488-5486 to register or come and walk on in .
>
> Learning Objectives:
>
> . What is a witch, and what a witch is not- debunking those age old
> stereotypes
>
> . History, Theology, and the Burning times
>
> . The difference between Witchcraft, Wicca, and Magicians-what's the
> difference?
>
> . Energy Play
>
> . Folklore and Herb Craft
>
> . Magick, Spell Crafting and Meditation- The law of attraction.
>
> . Cleansing and Consecration
>
> . Divination and Chakras
>
> . Creating a Book of Shadows, or Grimoir
>
> . Casting a protective Circle
>
>
>
> Private Tutoring Only, Groups and couples welcomed! All classes will be
> about 2 hours long. Course Material will be available for purchase on NPJ
> Online Store.
>
> For more information about this class, please feel free to contact Lilith
> Silverkrow at: <mailto:lilithsilverkrow@newpaganjourneys.com>
> lilithsilverkrow@newpaganjourneys.com, or you can stop by our local shop
> in
> Tigard or you can give us a call! We'll be happy to fill you in on the
> details. Space is limited to 15 people, and classes are filling up fast.
>
> Lilith Silverkrow
>
> Owner, Shamanic Soul Coach
>
> <mailto:LilithSilverkrow@newpaganjourneys.com>
> LilithSilverkrow@newpaganjourneys.com
>
> <http://www.newpaganjourneys.com> http://www.newpaganjourneys.com
>
> New Pagan Journeys
>
> 11945 SW Pacific Highway, Suite 306
>
> Tigard, Oregon 97223
>
> (503)488-5486
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> ____________________ ooo)(0({O})0)(ooo____________________
>
> Witches Workshop hold regular workshops see
> http://www.witchesworkshop.com/Circle/circle_workshop.html
>
> Keep up to date via our WitchesWorshop Facebook Page:
> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Sydney-Australia/WitchesWorkshop/135651219624
>
> WitchesWorkshop and Witch Camp Australia also run camps
> several times a year - check out our websites for updates.
> http://www.witchcampaustralia.org.au
> http://www.witchesworkshop.com
> __________________________________________________________
>
> The WitchesWorkshop egroup holds the expectation that a
> tolerant and respectful dialogue be strived for in our
> communication with other pagans, witches magicians, et al.
> Members are encouraged to challenge anyone not adhering
> to these principles & to notify owner.
>
> info@witchesworkshop.com
> __________________________________________________________
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

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4a.

Re: Obituary for a Psychic Octopus

Posted by: "Graham" grahfurn@yahoo.com.au   grahfurn

Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:46 am (PDT)



Many thanks for that C.B. I heard on the news report that Paul made 8 out of 8 correct predictions for the World Cup - according to my math there was only a 1 in 256 chance <about 0.4%> of him doing that - by no means impossible, but also definitely not an event that I would like to bet my house on. So I join you in bidding farewell to that amazing octo-tipster, Paul.

BB Graham.

--- On Wed, 27/10/10, carteblanche13 <carteblanche13@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

From: carteblanche13 <carteblanche13@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: [WitchesWorkshop] Obituary for a Psychic Octopus
To: WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com
Received: Wednesday, 27 October, 2010, 3:43 PM

 

Sisters and Brothers of the Nameless Faith,

It is my grim duty to here record the passing of a Witch of the Mollusc kingdom.

Paul the Psychic Octopus, who correctly predicted the winner of every World Cup match involving Germany as well as of the Final - an astonishing predictive success rate of 100% for the World Cup, and 86% overall (including other tournaments), which I think you'll agree is quite intimidating for a mollusc using direct prescience - passed away peacefully in his tank in Oberhausen on Monday of natural causes - he was quite old for his kind, having retired from active participation in the international occult-sporting world in July.

In a somewhat slippery slap in the face for the Spanish Inquisition, he had even been made an honorary citizen of a Spanish town - although he also suffered his share of persecution from the President of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinnerjacket, who accused him of spreading decadent Western propaganda. Sadly, the burning times are not too distant in some parts of the world.

Aunty has the details:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11626050

"The Hawaiian creation myth relates that the present cosmos is only the last of a series, having arisen in stages from the wreck of the previous universe. In this account, the octopus is the lone survivor of the previous, alien universe." (Wikipedia)

Perhaps that's where all the magic octopi go when they die in this one?

A moment's silence, if you will, in the name of Mighty Cthulhu!

Ia! Ia f'tagn!

C.B.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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5a.

Re: Wytchcraeft

Posted by: "vicpagan" thepaganz@hotmail.com   vicpagan

Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:44 am (PDT)



Hi Minka
You wrote:
>
> Why, what happened?
>
> Or more specifically what didn't happen?

Probably information overload! I've been reading some american blogs. They all seem very concerned with acheiving respectability, and trying to re-create witchcraft in their own sanitised PC image!

Then I see what looks to me to be the same thing among various Aussie groups trying to attain perceived benifits by aping bureaucratic, institutionalised, organised religiousity!

I've also been reading a few old introductory witchcraft texts, and I'm appaled at how dumbed down many of them now appear to me! Nearly all of them (with only a very few notable exceptions) seem to emphasis form, rather over essence!

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5b.

Re: Wytchcraeft

Posted by: "cottytosmaid" cottytosmaid@yahoo.com.au   cottytosmaid

Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:23 pm (PDT)



Greetings.

--- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com, "vicpagan" <thepaganz@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Minka
> You wrote:
> >
> > Why, what happened?
> >
> > Or more specifically what didn't happen?
>
>
> Probably information overload! I've been reading some american blogs. They all seem very concerned with acheiving respectability, and trying to re-create witchcraft in their own sanitised PC image!

I can see what tree those who seek this acceptance are barking up, but Witchcraft, well, as I know it anyway, could never be acceptable to the great unwashed. The philosophies, values and practices of Witchcraft fly in the face of those of society. Anything that was acceptable could not have the essence of Witchcraft as I know it.
>
> Then I see what looks to me to be the same thing among various Aussie groups trying to attain perceived benifits by aping bureaucratic, institutionalised, organised religiousity!

Yes, sadly, what you say is true.
>
> I've also been reading a few old introductory witchcraft texts, and I'm appaled at how dumbed down many of them now appear to me! Nearly all of them (with only a very few notable exceptions) seem to emphasis form, rather over essence!

Agreed.

Cotty
>

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5c.

Re: Wytchcraeft

Posted by: "crossroadsincircle" crossroadsincircle@yahoo.com.au   crossroadsincircle

Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:31 pm (PDT)



"Pagans couldn't get organised if their lives depended on it!"

You seem to say this as though it were a good thing. Since when is ineptitude, a lack of recognition for ability, and inability to agree on things beneficial?

It also seems a little off considering the level of organisation displayed by groups in Britain and the US.

BT

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5d.

Re: Wytchcraeft

Posted by: "Jess Steers" jess@tascommodores.com   circle_of_the_shadows

Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:46 pm (PDT)



BT,

I wasn't being negative or positive with my comment - it's simply a
reflection of my own observations, a decade of experience, and also a repeat
of a comment I've often affectionately heard from pagan people over the
years (herding cats, etc).

Perhaps the very things you see as negatives in our community are the same
things that are keeping the magick alive.

Jess

From: WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of crossroadsincircle
Sent: Thursday, 28 October 2010 10:31 AM
To: WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WitchesWorkshop] Re: Wytchcraeft

"Pagans couldn't get organised if their lives depended on it!"

You seem to say this as though it were a good thing. Since when is
ineptitude, a lack of recognition for ability, and inability to agree on
things beneficial?

It also seems a little off considering the level of organisation displayed
by groups in Britain and the US.

BT

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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5e.

Re: Wytchcraeft

Posted by: "vicpagan" thepaganz@hotmail.com   vicpagan

Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:40 pm (PDT)



Hi Cotty
You wrote

>Anything that was acceptable could not have the essence of
Witchcraft as I know it.

If we lived in a society where no one thought they had the right to interfere with those who were minding their own business and not causing harm we would be a lot closer, but we are not quite there yet!
BB
H

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5f.

Re: Wytchcraeft

Posted by: "vicpagan" thepaganz@hotmail.com   vicpagan

Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:48 pm (PDT)



Hi BT
You wrote:-

> Since when is ineptitude, a lack of recognition for ability, and
> inability to agree on things beneficial?

When skill serves a fascist agenda, when the only ability is that of self promotion, and when benifit is defined by the self-serving and unscrupulous!

Not making any accusations here, just saying!
BB
H

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5g.

Re: Wytchcraeft

Posted by: "vicpagan" thepaganz@hotmail.com   vicpagan

Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:09 am (PDT)



Hi Gav
You wrote:-
> My thinking is a bit different. When I wear my media officer hat I > operate under a few assumptions. First, that witchcraft and Pagan > spirituality in general are perfectly normal and natural forms of > religious expression.

I agree that Pagan spirituality is a perfectly normal and natural form of religious expression. But 'witchcraft', I'm not so sure about. I think in many ways we loose more than we gain in trying to make that word too safe.

>Second, that many if not most people in the broader community don't >understand that - hence the mockery on one hand or the fear and >projection on the other.

I'm not convinced that you can remove the fear about the 'W' word without loosing a significant part of its essence. I think it is disingenuos to try to separate the witch from her antinomian archetype.

>Third, that the broader community is capable of questioning its >previous assumptions about us if we >put out information that they >can understand and relate to.

I agree, but I think there is a tendency to dumb the information down to a point where it becomes counter productive, particularly when vociferous elements in our community then start to believe the dumbed down version and promote it (through repetition) as some sort of orthodoxy.

> >>However, it troubles me deeply when people do that to make themselves more acceptable to the general populace, or the media. It troubles me even more when witches start aping bureaucracy and organised religion

> I'll be sure to mention that to the PAN national committee :-P

Well if you think PAN suffers from that affliction it's probably a good idea to mention it. ;P I think they are doing ok so far, but I don't suppose they are immune to the constrictions of the Iron cage of bureaucracy!

> Seriously, though, I do agree with you to a great extent, but at >the same time a bit of organization helps your efforts be more >effective when you have a genuine desire to effect positive change.

I've got no problem with a 'bit' of organisation. Its organised religion that worries me, the confluence of those two ideas has IMO caused way more problems than it has ever solved.

> I also think it is easy to be dismissive of mainstream attitudes >towards witchcraft and Paganism when >you are an autonomous adult. >This autonomy means you are less likely to come into contact with >people whose attitudes towards Paganism may affect you directly. It >can be a very different story for >young witches and Pagans, for >those with mental illnesses or physical disabilities, for hospital >patients, >for Police or ADF personnel, and possibly the unemployed. >For these people, how the media portrays >us and the populace views >us can have direct impacts. This is why things like Census >statistics, visibility >at interfaith events, lines of communication >with govt departments and so on really matter.


I feel strongly that Paganism and Witchcraft are not the same things. I can see no real reason why paganism can't be an accepted part of the societies in which it exists, I for one believe it could be a positive influence. However, I feel that when witchcraft tries to be too polite and respectable it looses much of its heart.

> > I'm not sure that calling people 'suckers' or blow-hards is all that inclusive!?
>
> I'm just a sucker for a good line, and you opened the door by referring to people who suck! ;-)

It is one thing to describe an action; its quite another to apply labels!

> > The good thing about PAN, IMO, is that (in my understanding) it >>places itself an educational rather >>than a religious >>organisation.
>
> Absolutely the case. The other part of its mission is to foster the >growth of the Pagan community in >Australia.

It seems to me that PAN and other organisations like the Pagan Alliance do their best work when they are running and supporting events that show case a wide range of pagan perspectives. This is far different, and IMO healthier than setting up hierarchically structured religious organisations.

> One of the issues we've faced with that is the minimal culture of >service to others within the Pagan >community.

I disagree with this perception, I think that there is plenty of service; it just looks a bit different from what we are used to seeing in other religious communities. What we are used to seeing is churches setting up charities as part of their self-promotional activities. Support for these institutions is just as often elicited through the manipulation of guilt and peer pressure as it is through genuine compassion. So far few, if any pagan group can sustain that sort of leverage over their members for any length of time, and I hope they never can. What many pagans do choose choose to do is to support various charities and causes which they feel are necessary and ethical.

The other area of service that we see in religious communities is the care of members by fellow members, again I think there is an element of guilt and peer pressure in this, but also there is a greater sense of solidarity among these religions because of their structure. Paganism doesn't work like that, I suspect this is because, most pagans find their care and support networks amongst their circle of family and close friends (many of whom may not even be pagan). Unless pagans have developed strong friendships with other pagans in real life I think it is unrealistic to expect assistance based solely on mutual identification with the word 'pagan'. It's just not a strong enough bond to elicit the sense of mutual obligation that motivates other religious communities.

>If there is a need to get something done it can often be the same >old faces (and despite >your >protestations yours is often one of >them) turning up to pitch in.

I only do things that I enjoy or that serve an outcome I desire, when it stops being fun I stop giving. Some people might think this is terribly selfish of me, but I believe that in most cases there are two things that motive people - 'pleasure' or 'fear'. I much prefer to act from pleasure and to be with those who are similarly motivated! I should also point out that I do not believe that a deep appreciation of pleasure is at all the same thing as a fixation with instant gratification.

> Maybe that lack of service to others is partly due to the >experiential and mystical nature of Pagan >practice, which lends >itself to self-centredness - or perhaps better to say inwardness - ?

Yep, this could well be a factor.

>This may not be conducive to community-building.

I think most communities are built upon a basis of mutual need and dependency, whether economic, emotional, spiritual, or some combination of these and other needs. For the most part the only thing that keeps pagan groups together is the mutual desire of the members, so when desire wanes, or if someone pisses us off, or if it becomes inconvenient we can just walk away and find or create a new group. Like most things in the pagan world this seems to me to be a double (or more?) edged tool!

> Perhaps the future lies in fostering more of a service-culture
> while keeping true to the experiential core?

Or in fostering a truly pleasure positive society, rather than an instant gratification one!

BB
H

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6.1.

Re: Taxation dept may finally recognise Paganism as a valid religion

Posted by: "Touchwood" touchwood8@bigpond.com   nan_in_sa

Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:21 am (PDT)



Thanks Gavin – a good resource.

Cheers

Nan

From: WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Media Officer
Sent: Wednesday, 27 October 2010 6:35 PM
To: WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WitchesWorkshop] Re: Taxation dept may finally recognise Paganism
as a valid religion

Hi Nan,

You wrote:

> I would welcome reports on Paganism and its various branches written in
the
> same respectful way as other religions.

> I've always worked on the theory that the real function of a good
journalist
> is to keep the bastards honest, to inform and to write balanced and
ethical
> pieces, not to twist a story at the expense of the truth or a decent
> understanding of the subject.
>

To try and foster this PAN has developed online resources for journalists
and other interested parties on our website. See:

http://www.paganawareness.net.au/PAN//content/view/130/1/
<http://www.paganawareness.net.au/PAN/content/view/130/1/>

You, Tim, and others who take an interest in how Pagans are reported in the
media may be especially interested in the section titled "Myths, clichés and
reporting – a guide for the media" In it we've listed some of the ways
ill-informed or malicious journalists have 'sledged' us over the years.

These include:

* Referring to Paganism or witchcraft as a 'cult'.
* Doing a story about Pagans then going to Christian clergy for comment so
as to promote controversy
* Throwing around terms like 'white witch' and 'black witch'
indiscriminately
* Using cliches like bed-knobs, broomsticks, cauldrons, warts, the words
`ding' and `dong', `bubble' and `trouble', capes, pointy hats, spells etc to
cue the reader to see witchcraft and those who practice it in a
less-than-serious light
* Doing the story at Halloween
* Implying that Pagan practices might be dangerous

And my personal pet-hate...

* Referring to one of us as a 'self-proclaimed witch'. (Can you imagine any
publication referring to someone as a self-proclaimed
Christian/Jew/Muslim/Hindu/etc/etc/etc?)

We'll continue to expand this area of the PAN site with additional
information and resources, but naturally we'd like to see the myths, clichés
and reporting section become obsolete.

Gavin Andrew
PAN Media Officer.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (43)
7a.

Re: Whych craft ?

Posted by: "vicpagan" thepaganz@hotmail.com   vicpagan

Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:32 pm (PDT)



Hi C.B,

You quoted:-

> "Well, if I were dependent on the notion that human institutions are > necessary to pull us out of the ditch, I would be very despairing.
> As I've said, NOBODY is in charge. Not the IMF, the Pope, the
> Communist Party… no, no. Nobody has their finger on what's going
> on. So then, why hope? Isn't it just a runaway train out of
> control? I don't think so. I think the out-of-control-ness is the
>
> most hopeful thing about it. After all, WHOSE control is it out
> of? You and I never controlled it in the first place. Why are we > anxious about the fact that it's out > of control? I think if it's > out of control, then our side is
> winning."

I think breaking it down into an 'us against them' situation may be a little naive, but otherwise I really, really like this!!

BB
H

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8.

Re: o, another halloween story

Posted by: "John Elder" jelder@theage.com.au

Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:48 pm (PDT)



hulloo friends,

john elder here from the sunday age.

i'm working on a piece about the growing popularity of halloween at a neighborhood and community-event level. this year for the first time Coles is selling halloween costumes (where they have previously sold only masks) and otherwise marketing hard thjeir kent pumpkins etc. Coles told me they are offering a bigger range of Halloween related merchandise this year because of consumer demand. Intersting this is happening a couple of weeks after Saint Mary's canonisation.

any comments?

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