Messages In This Digest (8 Messages)
- 1a.
- Toro 'deploro' From: Tim Hartridge
- 1b.
- Re: Toro 'deploro' From: scott_bisseker
- 1c.
- Re: Toro 'deploro' From: barbtrad
- 1d.
- Re: Toro 'deploro' From: Tim Hartridge
- 2a.
- Re: recent article advice on witches and pagans for police From: scott_bisseker
- 2b.
- Re: recent article advice on witches and pagans for police From: barbtrad
- 3.
- Another misuse of the word Witch in todays SMH From: Astarte
- 4a.
- Re: Tradition From: barbtrad
Messages
- 1a.
-
Toro 'deploro'
Posted by: "Tim Hartridge" ozpagan@ozpagan.com wwwozpagancom
Sun Nov 7, 2010 3:55 am (PST)
This is the sort story you'd expect to read about happening as a
result of drunken vandalism where mindless and senseless cruelty is
inflicted upon animals, but no, this is state condoned 'sport'.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
"We're approaching Fire Bull season, when villages in Spain will
attach flammable chemicals to the horns of bulls and light them on
fire to watch them panic in the streets.
The toro de fuel, fire bull, is a variation on the running of the
bulls. In this "celebration", a bull has wads of flammable material
or containers of flammable chemicals attached to his horns and is
released into the street.
Seeing flames in front of his face, the bull panics and runs in
terror, thrashing and flailing. Villagers taunt and bait the bull,
dodging him for fun while sometimes throwing fireworks at him.
It's common for bulls to charge and smash themselves into walls in a
desperate attempt to either put out the flames or kill themselves."
Take action: Sign the petition against the fire bull spectacle!
http://www.care2.com/causes/ animal-welfare/ blog/stop- burning-live- bulls/
. . . . . . . . . . . . .
I'm addressing this practice as a pagan from two levels. The first is
in it's exoteric manifestation where my initial reaction to this
practice is from a deep concern over what is an entirely preventable
and unnecessary cruelty.
At a secondary level, in a esoteric form, I address it as a Taurean
and I feel a deep sadness that my totem animal is treated this way.
vinum sabbati,
Tim
- 1b.
-
Re: Toro 'deploro'
Posted by: "scott_bisseker" nu_scott@hotmail.com scott_bisseker
Sun Nov 7, 2010 4:28 pm (PST)
Greetings Tim,
> I'm addressing this practice as a pagan from two levels.
Yup - it is pretty grim really and I think fair enough reaction. It is also something I think that ties in really well with everything else being discussed right now.
I mean for me personally it is one of the reasons why the modernist pass time of white washing of "our" shared paths histories really irritates me. There are some aspects of the various cultural (soon to be or has been annexed and possibly then ejected or simply pretended to never have existed) realities that are easily argued as Pagan that simply aren't required any more.
Hence I can dig your bifid (oooh that's a dreadful pun sorry! lol) reaction except that my second one would be that given such and others things were such a large part of our collectively shared heritage .. perhaps rather than (as is usually the case) pretending such things were never anything to do with us .. we should perhaps be foremost in drawing the line against it now ... *Shrugs*
Scott
- 1c.
-
Re: Toro 'deploro'
Posted by: "barbtrad" barbtrad@yahoo.com.au barbtrad
Sun Nov 7, 2010 9:15 pm (PST)
Hi Tim.
Deplorable indeed. Sorry, but I don't think protests will bring a halt to this and the many other abominations associated with bull baiting in Spanish countries, Mexico etc. Too ingrained in the psyche.
One bright spot is that occasionally.. far too occasionally though.. the bull does manage to skewer Don Pedro on his horns..Saw a video clip of just such occasion.. horn right up,the clacker of a bull baiter and the bull parading Manual around squarking his guts out (literally).
Bill.
--- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups. , Tim Hartridge <ozpagan@...com > wrote:
>
> This is the sort story you'd expect to read about happening as a
> result of drunken vandalism where mindless and senseless cruelty is
> inflicted upon animals, but no, this is state condoned 'sport'.
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
> "We're approaching Fire Bull season, when villages in Spain will
> attach flammable chemicals to the horns of bulls and light them on
> fire to watch them panic in the streets.
>
> The toro de fuel, fire bull, is a variation on the running of the
> bulls. In this "celebration", a bull has wads of flammable material
> or containers of flammable chemicals attached to his horns and is
> released into the street.
>
> Seeing flames in front of his face, the bull panics and runs in
> terror, thrashing and flailing. Villagers taunt and bait the bull,
> dodging him for fun while sometimes throwing fireworks at him.
>
> It's common for bulls to charge and smash themselves into walls in a
> desperate attempt to either put out the flames or kill themselves."
>
> Take action: Sign the petition against the fire bull spectacle!
>
>
> http://www.care2.com/causes/ animal-welfare/ blog/stop- burning-live- bulls/
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
>
>
> I'm addressing this practice as a pagan from two levels. The first is
> in it's exoteric manifestation where my initial reaction to this
> practice is from a deep concern over what is an entirely preventable
> and unnecessary cruelty.
>
> At a secondary level, in a esoteric form, I address it as a Taurean
> and I feel a deep sadness that my totem animal is treated this way.
>
> vinum sabbati,
> Tim
>
- 1d.
-
Re: Toro 'deploro'
Posted by: "Tim Hartridge" ozpagan@ozpagan.com wwwozpagancom
Mon Nov 8, 2010 1:24 am (PST)
On 08/11/2010, at 4:15 PM, barbtrad wrote:
> One bright spot is that occasionally.. far too occasionally
> though.. the bull does manage to skewer Don Pedro on his horns..Saw
> a video clip of just such occasion.. horn right up,the clacker of a
> bull baiter and the bull parading Manual around squarking his guts
> out (literally).
Thanks Bill and Scott. Yeah, you know, I have no problem with human
impalement by an angry Bull, or throwing the proverbial christian to
the Lions (...so few Lions, so many...). It feels as though the 'deck-
is-stacked' against these animals, and all for human entertainment.
vinum sabbati,
Tim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- 2a.
-
Re: recent article advice on witches and pagans for police
Posted by: "scott_bisseker" nu_scott@hotmail.com scott_bisseker
Sun Nov 7, 2010 4:17 pm (PST)
Hey CB
> Which book was in the news?
Oh yeah that was a bit vague wannit? lol Sorry flyin thru at the moment .,. I mean that daft booklet for UK Coppers. *G*
Scott
- 2b.
-
Re: recent article advice on witches and pagans for police
Posted by: "barbtrad" barbtrad@yahoo.com.au barbtrad
Sun Nov 7, 2010 8:09 pm (PST)
Fond greetings Leif.
--- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups. , Leif Njordsson <godhi@...> wrote:com
>
> G'day Bill
>
> I was going to respond along similar lines but feel no need to reinvent
> the wheel.
>
>
> Life is a continuum, the norns bind past present and future into a
> composite structure. The past provides us with the tools to build in
> the present and step into the future.
Very well put. Past present and future all one..Yes indeed!
>
> they are the 3 points of stability upon which our essense, and that of
> our ancestors is built.
>
> Hope all is well with you and yours
It is and I hope the same for you and yours.
>
> Wes Thu Hael
>
> Leif
>
> People: Teutonic
> Tribe: Ruggae
Bill.
>
- 3.
-
Another misuse of the word Witch in todays SMH
Posted by: "Astarte" earthwise@bigpond.com astarte_earthwise
Sun Nov 7, 2010 6:20 pm (PST)
http://www.smh.com.au/entertain ment/restaurants -and-bars/ witch-takes- broom-t
o-nanna-state-taunts-20101107- 17j1b.html
'Witch' takes broom to nanna state taunts
Josephine Tovey URBAN AFFAIRS
November 8, 2010
Kyle Sandilands ... outspoken against Clover Moore.
THE City of Sydney council is preparing to hit back against a secretive
campaign by venue owners in Sydney against plans to clamp down on violent
pubs and clubs, which depicts the lord mayor, Clover Moore, as a witch who
is trying to ''close Sydney''.
The council has received thousands of letters of complaint via a website,
www.nannastate.com.au <http://nannastate. com.au/ > , protesting against
proposed changes to the city's late night trading rules. It comes after the
Today FM radio show host Kyle Sandilands, who also owns a stake in several
Sydney bars, said last month that he wanted to ''get rid of'' Cr Moore.
''I'll get rid of that woman, you watch. Eighty-year-old woman trying to run
the town. Go to the retirement village, you old clown,'' Sandilands said on
his program.
Advertisement: Story continues below
Clover Moore has been portrayed as a witch. Photo: Screengrab:
http://nannastate.com.au
The website depicts Cr Moore as a fairy tale-style witch, complete with
green skin and a pointed hat, and shows Sydney icons such as Centrepoint
Tower being swallowed by vines.
It tells visitors: ''If you don't take a stand now, one by one, the City of
Sydney is going to turn off the lights on Sydney's late night scene and its
night-time economy.''
The Herald understands it is being run by a group of venue promoters and
owners although no one will put their name to it.
The web address is being distributed via social networking sites such as
Facebook and through the street and music press, and has already generated
more than 2000 emails to the council.
The amendment to the Late Night Trading Premises Development Control Plan
2007 being considered by the council includes the power to make some venues
subject to ''reviewable conditions'', meaning council could restrict their
capacity and trading hours if a review found the venue was being poorly
managed.
In response to the campaign and widespread opposition to the changes among
licensees and publicans, the council is sending letters to industry members
and distributing posters.
''The [development control plan] is about rewarding well-managed
establishments whilst in the worst instances, withdrawing extended trading
privileges from those who do not deserve to have them,'' the letter reads.
''A small minority of poorly run premises contribute to alcohol-related
violence and give the industry a bad name.''
The anti-council campaign is similar to another secretive campaign waged by
the industry early last year called ''2am Sydney Closed'' against the
development control plan, which was being drafted at the time.
The ''nanna state'' website is registered to an individual named George
Mihailovski, who did not respond to requests for comment. The Australian
Hotels Association said it was not involved in the campaign.
Wise & Blessed Be
Astarte Earthwise
Earthwise Shop Online 24/7
<http://stores.shop.ebay. >com.au/Astarte- Earthwise
~~Forget not that the earth delights to feel your bare feet and the winds
long to play with your hair ~~Kahlil Gibran.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- 4a.
-
Re: Tradition
Posted by: "barbtrad" barbtrad@yahoo.com.au barbtrad
Sun Nov 7, 2010 9:05 pm (PST)
Hi CB.
--- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups. , "carteblanche13" <carteblanche13@com ...> wrote:
>
> Dear Bill,
>
> Further thoughts (ignore ad libitum!):
>
> --- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups. , "carteblanche13" <carteblanche13@com > wrote:
> >
> > Dear Bill
> >
> > --- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups. , "barbtrad" <barbtrad@> wrote:com
> > >
> > > HI c.B.
> > >
> > > --- In WitchesWorkshop@yahoogroups. , "carteblanche13" <carteblanche13@com > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Changed because we don't much like the way the place is run, nor those running it. Don't like the way we are completely powerless to change anything of any real significance. What we have is the choice every few years to choose which bunch of arseholes will govern us.. and that's our lot mate.. like it or lump it!
>
> Most of our pagan ancestors had even less say in the matter - and even in the less despotic democratic situations there would have been cliques and corruption.
Well I'd have to agree to disagree on that. You see I'm no fan of democracy it always ends up a majority, often a quite small one ruling a minority, again often a big one. Now the remedy for this is constitutions to safeguard some basic rights of minorities.. yep the US made a valiant effort to create one.. the Brits had a reasonable stab at it, sadly neither made the grade as time and circumstance changed and successive govts greedily weakened them in grabs for more and more power over the people. Poor old Australia never even attempted to secure anyone's rights ours is more about trade between states than anything else.
Now lets compare the options available to today's disgruntled citizen and those available to one of a more ancient system. The disgruntled, disenfranchised citizen today can .. well suck it up really as they don't have much redress.. OK they can.. provided they are allowed to .. emigrate. Not really much of an option as unless they go to some Hell Hole even less well run than here, will wind up under an identical system. That's your lot mate.
Our ancient, who most likely lived under tribal rule or later a fealty system actually had a choice. Reckon the chief is a bum hole? Righto.. kill the bugger and take over...Don't reckon the Prince, King. Duke or whatever is living up to his part of the fealty bargain? Well yes you could kill that bugger too.. a lot less likely to work because if you do, another member of his dynasty/family will step up to the plate forthwith.. and probably do you unspeakable mischief for bumping off their relly.. But you can leave.. set up your own fiefedom in the vast uninhabited wilds that were .. in those days.. abundant..Of course your first few years would be rather difficult what with fighting off wandering tribes, outlaws etc and all the while trying to breed your own dynasty. Yep most succumbed, but some did succeed and if sufficient foresight and planning were done.. you did stand a reasonable chance..To me and OK I know many wont agree, but both the tribal remedy and that dealing with a tyrannical aristocracy spell real freedom.
>
>
> I'd like to add a correction here, to what I wrote:
>
> > I think that anyone anywhere who has developed particular parts of themselves in the spiritual dimension through magical and mystical practise of whatever kind will have far more in common with eachother, regardless of heredity, than [>>they would with] members of the same tribe or even family who have no magical experience at all, which is usually the majority.
Again I'll have to agree to disagree.. for us the blood and heritage is the all. that and.. past present and future seen as the one is what it all about for us...Common experience or adherence just means.. well.. bugger all really.
>
>
>
> > > We believe its all completely tied together. There is past, present and future, but they are all part of the one ..Damn hard to put in a few words without sounding like some sort of Eastern claptrap.
>
> The thought occurs to me now that your/our ancestors probably got it from the East originally, anyway! But we'll never know for sure.
CB I think you have just got my ancestors rolling about in fits of rage in their graves :-)The Eastern folk weren't too popular with them.. tended to put them up for the night in some quite inventive ways. Not too keen on their spiritual views either from what I know.
>
>
>
> > >Something solid to cling to when the world around us seems to be turning to lunacy and a great engine running on bullshit and producing producing things we detest.
>
> Archbishop Pell says the same thing. I believe the president of The Islamic Republic of Iran agrees with both of you on this - and yet you'd probably all burn eachother alive as heretics if you could.
Yeah probably:-) perhaps not for reasons of heresy though.. Pell because we don't like him much and his record re child abuse in the church stinks to high heaven .. actually his beliefs don't matter much to us one way or 'tuther
Our Iranian mate because he poses a real and present threat to the safety of my kin and loved ones..Hell I don't care if he believes Allah is coming personally to take him to paradise and his well earned virgins.
>
> The direction of the Great Work is said to be a penetration, fructification or transmutation of Nature (Reality), not a denial or rejection of Her.
Depends on the great work methinks? Mine might not concur with yours nor yours with Fred down the road
But I agree - in terms of the new global industrial human society, we're still clutching at straws.
>
> Perhaps it's just "growing pains" - something to be weathered, but with a "forward escape" mentality?
A profound conundrum indeed. Is there an escape? And is that to become deeply entangled in the ecology of this realm.. which is.. after all doomed beyond saving by anything we do? Or is that escape only possible by transcending this realm before it is destroyed by the natural decay of our solar system?
Yes indeed befouling our nest is certainly not the way to go.. but trying to make a spirituality based on just common sense caring for where we live? Just cant see it. I see little if any real answers in modern paganism.. in fact a lot of it is really just a crock. I do agree with you that adhering only to the past without an eye to the present and future wont solve anything either..For me.. its retaining the values of our past while still benefiting from the Panadol and other good things humans have discovered/invented..And not just sitting still, but striving for more inventions, more advances.. all within the framework of our ancient values.
>
> Best regards..Likewise.
Bill.
>
> C.B.
>
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Witches Workshop hold regular workshops see
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WitchesWorkshop and Witch Camp Australia also run camps
several times a year - check out our websites for updates.
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http://www.witchesworkshop.com
___________________________________________________________
The WitchesWorkshop egroup holds the expectation that a
tolerant and respectful dialogue be strived for in our
communication with other pagans, witches magicians, et al.
Members are encouraged to challenge anyone not adhering
to these principles & to notify owner.
info@witchesworkshop.com
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