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1a.: Re: Problems with "Eclecticism" & "Eclectic" Wicca From: Blackbird

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1a.: Re: Problems with "Eclecticism" & "Eclectic" Wicca

Posted by: "Blackbird" blackbird_61@yahoo.com blackbird_61

Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:38 pm (PDT)

Hi All,

I must say, It's with just a touch of disappointment that I sit down to
write this post; after all with 4000+ members too our group I'm sure
there must be a good many self described Eclectic Wiccan's in that
number; and it seems a shame none of them has chosen to write a word to
defend their path.

As a Self Described Pagan, one might justly Argue I should keep my nose
out of this one, but I must admit on due consideration, I think it best
I not take that option seeing that no-one better suited to carry this
banner has chosen to step forward; I have chose to pick it up myself. So
as best I can I will now lay out ...
A Case for Eclectic Paganism
If I may ...
The Essay I am replying to seems to largely make the case for the
superiority and Authority of well established Gardnerian Trads over a
more personal and Eclectic Path; so let me first point out that
Gardnerian Wicca itself begins as an Eclectic Path.
What seems to be established beyond doubt is the central role of Gerald
Gardner in developing and propagating the religion, if not in conceiving
it (with or without the contributions of Dafo and others). He was,
beyond doubt, a remarkable man, a pioneer of Malaysian archaeology and
numismatics even while he was still in full-time employment in the
colonial administration, and then one of modern history's exemplars of
how retirement can provide a more productive outlet for frenetic energy
than formal work. As a founder of a modern pagan religion (if he was
such), his qualifications were probably unrivaled given his experience
of tribal animism, spiritualism, Freemasonry, Co-Masonry, the Fellowship
of Crotona, the OTO, The Folk-Lore Society, The Ancient Druid Order, and
the Order of Woodcraft Chivalry. Not to mention his wide reading and
field work in history and Archaeology. He was a published author of
learned monographs and novels, as well as his later books on pagan
witchcraft. He was perfectly capable of the trickery, dissimulation, and
plagiarism needed to pass off as an ancient survival a religion which he
had developed out of various older materials; anecdotes from very
different sources testify to be at times (depending on one's viewpoint)
either a liar of a prankster. The rituals possess certain idiosyncrasies
which seem particularly suited to his own tastes and views. - Ronald
Hutton - Triumph of the Moon. Pg 239; emphasis mine of course.
It is not my intention to insult anyone's path by Quoting Professor
Hutton - I for one, unlike the author lean strongly towards the idea the
Dorothy Clutterbuck was a genuine historical personage, and the keeper
of a genuine famtrad; that Gardner was initiated in that Trad, and then
seriously re-wrote it to suit his own spiritual tastes and needs.

Consider if you will the Ranking system in Wicca of Initiate, Priestess,
HighPriestess or Priest; almost certainly a borrowing from the
Freemason's 3 tiered system; and utterly unnecessary in a true famtrad;
in a true famtrad the "HighPriestess" is called Grandma, as she most
likely has the deepest knowledge and life experience to call upon if and
when needed by her family and neighbors.

And while as Professor Hutton Makes Clear, Gerald Gardner might have
been uniquely qualified both in terms of mundane learning, and esoteric
experience to found Wicca, it was still at the end of the day an
Eclectic Blending of his knowledge and his experience. (To include
anything he may have learned from Old Dorothy.) There-fore covened or
no, Wicca at it's inception was the unique, and eclectic creation of a
given individual; Gardner.

That seeming to be the case it seems to me at the very least odd; that
Pagan's that can only trace their lineages back to Gardner should hold
themselves above others on their own eclectic paths. If we compare Wicca
to the Native American Medicine Path, the Aboriginal Shaman of Australia
or any other surviving Indigenous path; we can see that as a Tradition,
Gardnerian Wicca is in it's infancy; no matter how deep the roots of the
tree that dropped that fruit go; Wicca is itself a very young tree. It's
pride in this matter seems to me misplaced; much as a 8 year old might
inform a group of 5 year olds they should defer to him, as they are just
babies.

I have no intention of engaging in a point by point debunking of the
original piece from here out; for one because as I will make plain
below, I do not think it is entirely without merit; and for another that
would simply be tiresome.
There are eclectic pagan practices that don't claim to be Wicca but
clearly show signs of the person having been strongly influenced by
Wicca because they borrow practices that are Wiccan. Sometimes they'll
make claims that are not entirely accurate, such as claiming to practice
Religio Romana (reconstruction of ancient Roman religion) ... yet are
casting circles and celebrating sabbats (which are not part of authentic
RR).
No doubt true ...

But let us consider for a moment the experiences of a 3 Hypothetical
Gardnerian Wiccan's in say, Maryland, Florida, and Upstate NY; while all
three might celebrate the Sabbats faithfully; (for want of a better
word) The person in Maryland whose climate and seasons are rather close
to Wicca's British home will have one experience, the 2nd in Key West;
Rather another, and the Third in Upstate NY where winter can reign for
up to 6 months of a given year, cramming the remaining seasons into the
remaining days, will have a rather different experiance of the other
two. I still remember vividly the last time I was home trudging through
a foot of snow to get to my brothers car, On April 1st; and wondering
how I could have ever thought this was just normal.

So for any Pagan, the Question presents itself, do you celebrate the
Sabbats according to the traditions of your path, or your ancestors; or
in accordance with a Celtic Calendar that really only applies to a
relatively small portion of the world; or do you - I dunno do some
homework, find out what the Sabbats and Celebrations of the Indigenous
people in your neighborhood were and honor those; or do you strive for
some mixture of Culturally historical and locally appropriate
observations?

At the end of the day like most things; One will get out of ones
spiritual path largely what one puts into it, if you dont do much
homework, if you dont research the people, the culture the prayers; then
you should not call what your doing "Authentic (Whatever)"

I'm not dising that ...
My relationship with Innana is Largely based on My personal experience
of her as my Goddess and Guide, not on Sumerian Reconstruction; while my
Unverifiable Gnostic Experience of Nan might not appeal to the Author of
the Piece I am replying to ... I don't much care ... I have had a long
conversation with Nan, lasting about 10 years now, this has been of
great profit to me. At the same time what we know of the Sumerian
Religion is unfortunately largely the viewpoint of the State Religion;
and while Enheduanna has left us some beautiful and passionate poetry
that speaks eloquently to her personal relationship with Innana, she was
also the High Priestess of that state religion and her Poetry is largely
the instrument of that institution. We will likely never have in our
possession the personal Diary of Enheduanna, precisely because she was
the first named author in the world; and an indulgence such as a
personal diary was centuries if not millennia in her future.

My Path and My Devotion are to the living Goddess Innana-Ki, Queen of
Heaven, Mother of Earth, She Who Wears the Robes of the Old Old Gods;
not to a long dead religion buried beneath millennia of sand; and
totally out of sync with the modern world in it's unrestrained ferocity.

Still one should not falsely claim they are on an authentic (whatever)
path; unless they have done due diligence and can claim with out fear of
contradiction that they are on said path.
Tradition based practices place primary emphasis on maintaining a
balance between religio-mythic authenticity and unverified personal
gnosis (UPG) -- with authenticity taking greater precedence over UPG.
That's because UPG is "personal truth" which is not universal, and often
does not mesh with religio-mythic authenticity. Whereas Eclectics are
most often the direct opposite and put far greater emphasis on UPG than
authenticity, with insistence that all UPG be deemed valid and equally
true to the path regardless of one person's UPG differing from someone
else's understanding.
Now this I find quote Bizarre myself - in that I know I have more than
once heard it said, or written - that the point of Wicca was to create a
Religion of Prophets, with access to the Gods themselves; A beautiful
thing, one hopes Wicca achieves this, but the paragraph quoted above
certainly begs the Question; what is the point if that which is gifted
to the Priest/ess from the Gods themselves is of secondary importance to
observing the forms? I can't for the life of me think of anything more
exactly backwards in all the world.

What gifts of Gno-ing that come to me from Nan, that is the primary
thing; when and how they come is of no importance besides that ... Yea
know the two most stunning things that have come to me, have come to me
with no ceremony at all; just an open mind a given lazy Sunday drive
home.

One, most of you have seen; I am the Cup that holds Eternity, All Other
Cups, Have their source in Me.

The Other: Pride is a Garment that does not become a Servant.

There have been a few occasions where Nan has shown me things I needed
to see; once pulling up a memory of some Sumerian Votive Statues to show
me how to hold my hands in Prayer; small things like that ... but those
two moments, have been the most moving. Again my primary relationship
with Nan has always been that of reader and Guide; and while she has
allowed me to be the vehicle through which counsel is passed; and that
has been a moments stunning; these two small moments in their way where
the most personal. Nuff said, it is really perhaps impossible for me to
describe just why.

Anyhow - As Ghost once Said: The Invitation comes from HER.

Not from Gardner or any other authority, when we start putting the
customs of man before what we have been gifted by the Gods; We might as
well just go back to our nearest Catholic Church and join our neighbors
in the Choir. Indeed it seems to me this is exactly the fate the befell
the "Gnostics" and (IMHO) led to the failure of the Catholic Church, and
in time to the Burning. 2

Lastly let me take a moment to visit the Question of Satan, since the
author of the orignal Article brought him up.
The Christian god simply does not fit into traditional Wicca, he is not
a Wiccan deity.

As for Eclectic Wicca: it's often stated "Wiccans don't believe in
Satan, that's a Christian deity and we don't worship Christian deities."
So which is it, do Wiccans believe in Christian deities or no? It's all
or nothing. Pagans, witches and wiccans don't claim to only believe in
parts of pantheons. The whole is either accepted or rejected. If there
is no Satan, there is no monotheistic God. If it's ok to graft one
Christian deity on to an Eclectic Wiccan practice, there's no valid
argument to deny someone else from grafting on the other and form
"Satanic Wicca".
First off I have said before I think the "Wiccan's Don't Believe in
Satan" position is ill considered and inherently flawed; If as Pagans we
believe in The Gods have a existence beyond our own imaginations; then
Satan most certainly exists; his existence has been reported for
literally thousands of years. If as Pagans we believe in the concept of
the Eregor 3, that a thought form given enough time, energy and
"Devotion" can take on an independent existence - Then Satan most
certainly exists - even if only as a creation of the very church that
set itself up to oppose his presence on earth; and if we as Pagans do
not dismiss out of hand reports of contact with Fairies, Dragons, Ghost
and other Energetic beings; then certainly the long history of
possession is not something we can dismiss out of hand because it does
not fit our HOPED FOR metaphysical world view.

We needed not, and should not Honor Satan; but to deny his existence is
to deny our own metaphysics, if we take them seriously, if they allow
for Isis, Innana, and Ra - They allow for him too, and Yahweh as well.1

What that does not mean is that SATAN is necessarily the Great Enemy of
God; or that Yahweh is one and the same as Deity, and the Ultimate
Godhead. No that God/dess, that God/dess for whom the great nebula, and
Quasars are just a mote in Gods eye; that Goddess whose unlimited
Omniscience in this moment encompasses more galaxies than all the
beaches in all the world hold grains of sand, that God/dess as the
Rabbi's rightly contend is far beyond our imagining, and comprehension;
and that unknowable Deity has no need to be Jealous of anyone. Blessing,
BB.
------------------------------------------------------

1. And quite honestly whether the Gods exist or no has nothing to do
with our Metaphysics, we have no say in that what so ever; either the
Gods Exist; and my own experience strongly suggests they do ... or they
don't and our Metaphysics is utterly mistaken; but if Satan exists he
does, if Yahweh exists, he Does; we don't get to wish away that which we
wish was not so ... not in Mundane reality, nor the Metaphysical realms.

2. Readers are referred to Elain Pagels, The Gnostic Gospels for further
study.

3. I must admit that my own thoughts on this matter are not quite in
sync with what might be considered the standard model; while I have no
doubt that time, attention and energy can cause a thought-form to
manifest in the world; that's basic spell craft; I do not believe any
amount of human effort can summon up a Deity out of whole cloth; nor do
I suspect that the ultimate Godhead, has much interest in reaching down
and putting it's finger the glove we have stitched together; call it
what one may.

Rather say in the case of Satan I suspect, we can feed, enlarge, and
sustain a entity that was already existent; but to birth such an entity
... I think that is seriously beyond our powers; if not beyond our egos.

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