Witch_Essentials

Messages In This Digest (11 Messages)

1a.: Re: Disappointed Ignorance From: Rachel Wright
1b.: Re: Disappointed Ignorance From: Antigone
1c.: Re: Disappointed Ignorance From: rr

2a.: Re: Brida - A Book Review. BB. From: Blackbird
2b.: Re: Brida - A Book Review. BB. From: Mary Cooney
2c.: Re: Brida - A Book Review. BB. From: Blackbird
2d.: Re: Brida - A Book Review. BB. From: Mary Cooney
2e.: Re: Brida - A Book Review. BB. From: Mary Cooney
2f.: Re: Brida - A Book Review. BB. From: Blackbird

3a.: Re: Samhain Info & Lore (Was: Disappointed Ignorance From: Mary Cooney

4.: cdw 3-5 The Emperor Rx From: blackbird

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Messages

1a.: Re: Disappointed Ignorance

Posted by: "Rachel Wright" laffnsun8@cox.net laffnsun8

Mon Oct 4, 2010 10:57 am (PDT)

Nikki

In response to this I have to say that I find "Wiccan's are pale white,
fat( overweight) wear black robes, capes and kill animals." belief truly to
be hilarious, considering I am tanned I live in Tucson, AZ love the sun, I
am 5'2" size 10 jeans not fat at all well maybe a small amount, I don't wear
black if I can help it maybe bras and panties that is it, and I love my
animals. People are not just ignorant in their thinkings, they are
judgmental and Prejudice as well as scared of that unknown. I have seen that
website many years ago and I laughed it off because they really do not have
a clue. Just send them a blessing that someday they find the peace &
happiness in their souls that we have in our own personal walk. That is how
I get through that situation. I smile, tell whoever is judging me that guess
what I have true peace, harmony & happiness in my own soul to be able to
accept you for who you are & what you believe now I offer a blessing of the
same kind to you in your own walk. That usually gets them they don't realize
they are walking a life that is not one of true peace and it shows.
Blessings to you sister, just smile and hold your head high.

-------Original Message-------

From: nicoleh
Date: 10/4/2010 7:59:11 AM
To: Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Witch_Essentials] Disappointed Ignorance

Merry Meet-

I have a lot on my mind, and I am not looking to vent or anything- but this
is one thing that I can't over look- I try to over look the ignorance of
others because people are allowed to speak their mind. But why is it Non
Wiccan,Pagan and others still believe that Halloween is a "Evil" holiday,
time of the year? Do people not realize that Halloween is more than what it
stood for back in the day? I came across a few websites and I am proud to
say I have been studying and learning everything I can about Wicca, since I
am 80% Irish I came across Wicca when I was 16 and I have felt the
connection to the Celtic religion, anyway( ranting) I wanted to see what
they had to say and I was horrified at what they had to say- I looked at the
Exposingsatanism.org
just because it had a clip from Iowa and I can't believe that people say
Wiccan's are pale white, fat( overweight) wear black robes, capes and kill
animals. I wonder how do we educate people and help them understand that
Witches do not Fly on a Broom stick, we don't kill animals and burn down
churches. I am a solo witch and am comfortable with it, just wish that
people were not ignorant. Witches are people too.
Blessed Be
(nikki)

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Messages in this topic (6)
1b.: Re: Disappointed Ignorance

Posted by: "Antigone" antigone213@gmail.com antigone213

Mon Oct 4, 2010 11:00 am (PDT)

Hi Nikki,

First off, many sites like exposingsatanism.org have no idea what real
Satanism is. Theirs is just incoherent and misinformed hatred. And as
disappointing as it can be, it will always exist in one form or another.
These people are highly prejudiced, often against anything that is not THEIR
WAY. For them, there is no convincing or explaining anything. They live in
a bubble and nothing penetrates that bubble except more rhetoric.

In my day to day life, I am sort of out of the proverbial broom closet.
Being a witch isn't something I broadcast, but nor do I particularly hide
it. I will never start a conversation with someone by saying "I'm a
pagan/witch," but if I think it's appropriate to bring up and the person I'm
talking to is open, I'll tell them. It's funny because Halloween is the
time that most people who don't know usually find out. I work at a
restaurant, and Halloween night is probably the most requested night off of
the entire year, more so even than Christmas or New Years eve.

My employers understand the importance of the holiday to me, and even if
there were 15 requests in before me I am certain to have Halloween off. But
part of that isn't just me saying "I'm a witch and you *have* to give me the
night off because it's a religious holiday." Instead, it's the fact that I
explained to them the importance of the holiday to me, and tell them that if
I can have Halloween and the winter solstice (which no one else tends to
request off anyway), I will work Black Friday (the day after Thanksgiving),
Christmas eve and Christmas day (the other heavily requested off days).
When you're reasonable, most people do what they can to accommodate (last
year I was given Halloween off and not made to work the other holidays).

Among my co-workers, I am often asked why I get Halloween off since I don't
have children to take trick-or-treating. The first thing I do is evaluate
the querent. If it's just someone who's pissed because they didn't get the
day off they wanted and looking for something to bitch about, I just explain
that I had a commitment on that night (or I say a "family gathering" <g>),
and that I committed to work other holidays in exchange. If it's someone
that I think is fairly open, I will explain some of my beliefs to them.that
it's an ancestor holiday and reverence to my ancestors is a large part of my
faith.

As far as educating people, I find being myself the best means of education.
As I said before, some people you just can't reach.so there's no point
banging your head on the table in frustration. My grandmother used to tell
me never to argue with a fool, because people won't know the difference.
I've always remembered that, but it took me a looooooong time to really GET
IT. One girl that I used to work with was a Jehovah's witness, and had some
very STRONG beliefs. I knew that, and never challenged or argued with her.
She was free to believe as she did, just as I am free to believe as I do.
After working with her for almost a year, she was talking about how pagans
killed babies and committed various other atrocities (and the research was
out there to back it up). I did not get upset or argumentative, I just
calmly told her that I'm a pagan and have been for a long time. I love most
animals more than I love most people and have never killed one, with the
exception of putting one down to prevent suffering. Nor had I ever killed
babies, in fact I love babies as much as I love animals. I told her I know
a lot of other pagans, wiccans, witches, heathens, etc.but I didn't know a
single one that had ever killed a baby. I also pointed out that the
Catholic church has probably harmed more children than pagans of any
denomination have. Did I change her whole perception of pagans? Probably
not (I hope so, but probably not). But I did make one chip in the "all
pagans are evil" wall she lived behind.after all I was a pagan she had
worked with for over a year and I wasn't exactly evil-we laughed together,
talked about endless topics, and I helped her out at work whenever she
needed it. But the important part was that she got to know me as a person
before she could apply the pagan prejudice.

So, I don't know if this will be applicable to your life, as I realize some
people *cannot* be out of the broom closet because of family or employers.
But the best way I've found from my own experience to educate people about
pagans and witches is to live my life. Live true to my beliefs, and let
people see that I'm a 'normal' person. I live, I love, I grieve, I work, I
do many of the same things they do.

It can be frustrating at times, but the ones who spew hate-filled rhetoric
aren't worth the aggravation of 'trying' to educate, and they're usually not
the ones you want to spend the energy on anyway.

Antigone

_____

From: Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nicoleh
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:05 AM
To: Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Witch_Essentials] Disappointed Ignorance

Merry Meet-

I have a lot on my mind, and I am not looking to vent or anything- but this
is one thing that I can't over look- I try to over look the ignorance of
others because people are allowed to speak their mind. But why is it Non
Wiccan,Pagan and others still believe that Halloween is a "Evil" holiday,
time of the year? Do people not realize that Halloween is more than what it
stood for back in the day? I came across a few websites and I am proud to
say I have been studying and learning everything I can about Wicca, since I
am 80% Irish I came across Wicca when I was 16 and I have felt the
connection to the Celtic religion, anyway( ranting) I wanted to see what
they had to say and I was horrified at what they had to say- I looked at the
Exposingsatanism.org
just because it had a clip from Iowa and I can't believe that people say
Wiccan's are pale white, fat( overweight) wear black robes, capes and kill
animals. I wonder how do we educate people and help them understand that
Witches do not Fly on a Broom stick, we don't kill animals and burn down
churches. I am a solo witch and am comfortable with it, just wish that
people were not ignorant. Witches are people too.
Blessed Be
(nikki)

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Messages in this topic (6)
1c.: Re: Disappointed Ignorance

Posted by: "rr" rrshade1@gmail.com rrobynns

Mon Oct 4, 2010 1:02 pm (PDT)

Hi...totally agree...with a sad proviso.i grew up in LA & moved to London
after university . I was so sure America had grown wise and wonderful
...wrong. maybe growing backwards.Antigone i respect what you say but i
really wish there was a faster bigger way to wake people up. I really am
appalled. The poor Rutgers student who committed suicide because of the
horrible ignorance cruelty of his roommate who outed him as gay.
It's really worse in the states. Everyone is so afraid, striking out before
they are struck down..
Wicca, gay...
The internet could, should be used to provide information ...sadly it dosh
used so often to promulgate appalling rhetoric.
somehow I would like to fight the good fight...this is terrifying to me.who
is next?
Robyn

robyn

On Oct 4, 2010 11:00 AM, "Antigone" <antigone213@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Nikki,

First off, many sites like exposingsatanism.org have no idea what real
Satanism is. Theirs is just incoherent and misinformed hatred. And as
disappointing as it can be, it will always exist in one form or another.
These people are highly prejudiced, often against anything that is not THEIR
WAY. For them, there is no convincing or explaining anything. They live in
a bubble and nothing penetrates that bubble except more rhetoric.

In my day to day life, I am sort of out of the proverbial broom closet.
Being a witch isn't something I broadcast, but nor do I particularly hide
it. I will never start a conversation with someone by saying "I'm a
pagan/witch," but if I think it's appropriate to bring up and the person I'm
talking to is open, I'll tell them. It's funny because Halloween is the
time that most people who don't know usually find out. I work at a
restaurant, and Halloween night is probably the most requested night off of
the entire year, more so even than Christmas or New Years eve.

My employers understand the importance of the holiday to me, and even if
there were 15 requests in before me I am certain to have Halloween off. But
part of that isn't just me saying "I'm a witch and you **have** to give me
the night off because it's a religious holiday." Instead, it's the fact
that I explained to them the importance of the holiday to me, and tell them
that if I can have Halloween and the winter solstice (which no one else
tends to request off anyway), I will work Black Friday (the day after
Thanksgiving), Christmas eve and Christmas day (the other heavily requested
off days). When you're reasonable, most people do what they can to
accommodate (last year I was given Halloween off and not made to work the
other holidays).

Among my co-workers, I am often asked why I get Halloween off since I don't
have children to take trick-or-treating. The first thing I do is evaluate
the querent. If it's just someone who's pissed because they didn't get the
day off they wanted and looking for something to bitch about, I just explain
that I had a commitment on that night (or I say a "family gathering" <g>),
and that I committed to work other holidays in exchange. If it's someone
that I think is fairly open, I will explain some of my beliefs to them…that
it's an ancestor holiday and reverence to my ancestors is a large part of my
faith.

As far as educating people, I find being myself the best means of
education. As I said before, some people you just can't reach…so there's no
point banging your head on the table in frustration. My grandmother used to
tell me never to argue with a fool, because people won't know the
difference. I've always remembered that, but it took me a looooooong time
to really GET IT. One girl that I used to work with was a Jehovah's
witness, and had some very STRONG beliefs. I knew that, and never
challenged or argued with her. She was free to believe as she did, just as
I am free to believe as I do. After working with her for almost a year, she
was talking about how pagans killed babies and committed various other
atrocities (and the research was out there to back it up). I did not get
upset or argumentative, I just calmly told her that I'm a pagan and have
been for a long time. I love most animals more than I love most people and
have never killed one, with the exception of putting one down to prevent
suffering. Nor had I ever killed babies, in fact I love babies as much as I
love animals. I told her I know a lot of other pagans, wiccans, witches,
heathens, etc…but I didn't know a single one that had ever killed a baby. I
also pointed out that the Catholic church has probably harmed more children
than pagans of any denomination have. Did I change her whole perception of
pagans? Probably not (I hope so, but probably not). But I did make one
chip in the "all pagans are evil" wall she lived behind…after all I was a
pagan she had worked with for over a year and I wasn't exactly evil—we
laughed together, talked about endless topics, and I helped her out at work
whenever she needed it. But the important part was that she got to know me
as a person before she could apply the pagan prejudice.

So, I don't know if this will be applicable to your life, as I realize some
people **cannot** be out of the broom closet because of family or
employers. But the best way I've found from my own experience to educate
people about pagans and witches is to live my life. Live true to my
beliefs, and let people see that I'm a 'normal' person. I live, I love, I
grieve, I work, I do many of the same things they do.

It can be frustrating at times, but the ones who spew hate-filled rhetoric
aren't worth the aggravation of 'trying' to educate, and they're usually not
the ones you want to spend the energy on anyway.

Antigone

------------------------------

*From:* Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *nicoleh
*Sent:* Monday, October 04, 2010 10:05 AM

To: Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Witch_Essentials] Disappointed Ignorance

Merry Meet-

I have a lot on my mind, and I am not looking to vent or anything- but this
is one thing that I ca...

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Messages in this topic (6)

2a.: Re: Brida - A Book Review. BB.

Posted by: "Blackbird" blackbird_61@yahoo.com blackbird_61

Mon Oct 4, 2010 1:01 pm (PDT)

Actually I think you have the Quite inverted,

The Warning Text
<http://p6.hostingprod.com/@anar-mura.com/WE/Warning.jpg> refers to his
being chastized by his Mentor in his Esoteric Tradition, which I believe
he refers to as RAM, for importing Techniques he learned in Drama.
My Sticking Point was not that it was not a Worthwhile story about
persons spiritual journey, but that while he is very protective of his
own Tradition, we have a major charactor Wicca, who is named for another
Pagan Tradition, but has nothing to do with that Tradition Really. As
I mentioned in a reply to another post I intend to look at the Spanish
copy at our library as soon as possible as this may well just be a bad
job of translation, but ... really it's not 1970 Wicca's been around for
awhile and should be respected/ presented for what it is ...
Jumping off High Horse now. I do appreciate your other thoughts and yes
members should read or listen to the book themselves, with an open mind
I dont believe any of Paulo's books is a complete waste of time. For a
lesser Author I would not have posted really.
Blessings, BB.

--- In Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com, Mary Cooney <msweetness05@...>
wrote:
>
In the beginning of the book there is a few pages under the title
called, "Warning" where the author talks about when he was in drama
classes. The quote you used below was from his drama teacher in
explaining RAM in drama, which I have never studied drama so I am not
sure what RAM is. Then the author goes on to explain about the few
rituals in the story and that they should not be practiced without
guidance. The rituals are a part of the "Tradition of the Moon"
practiced over the centuries. Apparently Brida was a real person and
when Coelho interviewed her about the book she wanted to keep changing
things so I am not inclined to believe that these are real rituals. I
think they were changed and things were altered for secrecy. Its just a
story about a woman's search and her spiritual path which we all are
venturing on and that is all I think Coelho is doing in this story.
As for JK Rowling, not sure about that, haven't really read too many of
her books and so I am just assuming that she took her information from
references that are widely known in books and such whereas, Coelho took
his story from a person's experience?? Altered as it may be.

However, it was a good book on a spiritual journey as most of this other
ones are. He does speak from a Christian perspective most of the time.
He quotes a verse from the bible in the beginning of Brida which talks
about a woman who lost something and tears her house apart to find
it,ie, the spiritual journey.

Let me know what you think!

Blessed Be,
Mary

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Messages in this topic (10)
2b.: Re: Brida - A Book Review. BB.

Posted by: "Mary Cooney" msweetness05@gmail.com sylvanmimi09

Mon Oct 4, 2010 4:05 pm (PDT)

Dont you think fiction is fiction though, are we supposed to believe
fiction? When I read fiction, I don't take it as truth, its a story to me a
beginning, middle and end. If it was a non fiction book that would be
different and I would expect facts. In some of Coelho's books he makes a
story out of accounts and experiences of other women and tries to tell it
from a woman's point of view, ie "Eleven Minutes" which is all about sex and
I read it as fiction, thats all because I dont believe a man can really know
how a woman feels even to write about it. Just my opinion.

Peace,
Mary

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Blackbird <blackbird_61@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
> Actually I think you have it quite inverted,
>
> The Warning Text <http://p6.hostingprod.com/@anar-mura.com/WE/Warning.jpg>refers to his being chastized by his Mentor in his Esoteric Tradition, which
> I believe he refers to as RAM, for importing Techniques he learned in
> Drama.
>
> My Sticking Point was not that it was not a Worthwhile story about persons
> spiritual journey, but that while he is very protective of his own
> Tradition, we have a major charactor Wicca, who is named for another Pagan
> Tradition, but has nothing to do with that Tradition Really. As I
> mentioned in a reply to another post I intend to look at the Spanish copy at
> our library as soon as possible as this may well just be a bad job of
> translation, but ... really it's not 1970 Wicca's been around for awhile and
> should be respected/ presented for what it is ... at the very least a person
> representing another path, (however valid) simply should never have been
> called Wicca.
>
> Jumping off High Horse now. I do appreciate your other thoughts and yes
> members should read or listen to the book themselves, with an open mind I
> dont believe any of Paulo's books is a complete waste of time. For a lesser
> Author I would not have posted really.
>
> Blessings, BB.
>
>
> --- In Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com, Mary Cooney <msweetness05@...>
> wrote:
> >
> In the beginning of the book there is a few pages under the title called,
> "Warning" where the author talks about when he was in drama classes. The
> quote you used below was from his drama teacher in explaining RAM in drama,
> which I have never studied drama so I am not sure what RAM is. Then the
> author goes on to explain about the few rituals in the story and that they
> should not be practiced without guidance. The rituals are a part of the
> "Tradition of the Moon" practiced over the centuries. Apparently Brida was
> a real person and when Coelho interviewed her about the book she wanted to
> keep changing things so I am not inclined to believe that these are real
> rituals. I think they were changed and things were altered for secrecy. Its
> just a story about a woman's search and her spiritual path which we all are
> venturing on and that is all I think Coelho is doing in this story.
> As for JK Rowling, not sure about that, haven't really read too many of her
> books and so I am just assuming that she took her information from
> references that are widely known in books and such whereas, Coelho took his
> story from a person's experience?? Altered as it may be.
>
> However, it was a good book on a spiritual journey as most of this other
> ones are. He does speak from a Christian perspective most of the time. He
> quotes a verse from the bible in the beginning of Brida which talks about a
> woman who lost something and tears her house apart to find it,ie, the
> spiritual journey.
>
> Let me know what you think!
>
> Blessed Be,
> Mary
>
>

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Messages in this topic (10)
2c.: Re: Brida - A Book Review. BB.

Posted by: "Blackbird" blackbird_61@yahoo.com blackbird_61

Mon Oct 4, 2010 5:25 pm (PDT)

Mary Said, "Dont you think fiction is fiction though, are we supposed to
believe fiction?"

BB re: Actually, I would take a rather different Tack on that myself.

If your reading say Tolkien, or more to the Point Harry Potter your
reading something you know to be "Completely made up' out of whole
Clothe", but if you read say, Phillipa Gregory, or Alison Weir, your
reading "Historical Fiction" written by one of two very competent
Historians, and while Elements of the Drama may differ from history, you
can expect the basic facts, and flow of events is sculpted to conform to
the Historical reality. I know Phillipa is very careful about this
actually.*

The Same with say Michael Crichton's The Andromeda Strain, Michael is in
fact a Doctor, but also communicates a real understanding of how the
Scientific Bureaucracy would respond to an unprecedented Crisis. ( I
think)

So I would then to disagree here, for me most of the Best Fiction is
grounded in Fact, it is the Police Thriller written by someone with 20
years on the Job, the Medical Thriller written by an ER Nurse, For A
Dramatization of the Missiles of October, you want the writer to
understand Politics, Power, Human Nature, no: and so on ...

So when Paulo says he is a Adept, he is, IMHO trying to put himself in
that category; he is saying to the reader "I am someone inside the
esoteric community, inside the Magickal disciplines" and he is promising
you a peek, (a fictionalized peek) behind the curtain, - but if you
promise your audience that - then I feel you can and should be called
out when you are inaccurate, untrue to that community or discipline.

I do Love Tolkien, sometimes things made up out of Whole Clothe can be
quite wonderful, and Tolkien invested years of his life in creating a
world as real and internally consistent as possible, as you likely know,
before he gave the rest of the world a peek behind that curtain. I write
some fiction myself, largely made up, but I try to ground the Magick in
that Fiction to be true to Magick as I understand it in our world, (If
more potent, but operating under the same basic rules. Personally I
think it is important that a writer be as true as possible to the
realities s/he is speaking to myself.

Funny what you said, about men writing Female Characters though, most of
my Characters are female, but that's because they flow it's
easier for me to get into their minds and hearts, while when writing for
male characters it tends to get stiff and awful. Ironic no? Anyhow I
appreciate your thoughts and I hope my reply is not taken as a challenge
per se, but you asked "Dont you think?" and actually my answer is quite
different I think from yours.

Blessings, BB.

_____________________________________________

*she did an Interview for Writers Magazine a year or so back you might
find it at the Library, it's very interesting.

--- In Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com> , Mary Cooney
<msweetness05@...> wrote:
>
Dont you think fiction is fiction though, are we supposed to believe
fiction? When I read fiction, I don't take it as truth, its a story to
me a beginning, middle and end. If it was a non fiction book that would
be different and I would expect facts. In some of Coelho's books he
makes a story out of accounts and experiences of other women and tries
to tell it from a woman's point of view, ie "Eleven Minutes" which is
all about sex and I read it as fiction, thats all because I dont believe
a man can really know how a woman feels even to write about it. Just my
opinion.

Peace,
Mary

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Messages in this topic (10)
2d.: Re: Brida - A Book Review. BB.

Posted by: "Mary Cooney" msweetness05@gmail.com sylvanmimi09

Mon Oct 4, 2010 7:23 pm (PDT)

Hi BB,

Oh no, I love this kind of discussion because I never presume that my
opinion is right, just an opinion. I think that I just didn't look at
Paulo Coelho as an authoritarian on anything, he writes from his own
experience and not every one has the same experience. I didn't take
anything in Brida as true, just a story as I said. Now if I were reading
something in the catagory of historical fiction such as Braveheart or Dances
with Wolves then that would be totally different. I do agree with you there
and think that if an author has the experience and writes about it, its
credible. I stumbled upon Brida when I was looking through his books and I
am always drawn to books about wicca and the craft. I am just learning
about all this so I guess I am skeptical about somethings I do not
understand yet.

Which brings me to another book question. Have you read any in the Sweep
series, like Book of Shadows, Coven etc,,,seems like another teen romance
mixed with witchcraft sort of Buffy stuff to me. Have to look up the author
but I was wondering if you read them, I picked up the first book which has
three stories in it and started reading a paragraph or two,,,I was bored,
the writing was awful and well, I am not sure how accurate it is???

Peace,
Mary

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Blackbird <blackbird_61@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
> Mary Said, "Dont you think fiction is fiction though, are we supposed to
> believe fiction?"
>
> BB re: Actually, I would take a rather different Tack on that myself.
>
> If your reading say Tolkien, or more to the Point Harry Potter your reading
> something you know to be "Completely made up' out of whole Clothe", but if
> you read say, Phillipa Gregory, or Alison Weir, your reading "Historical
> Fiction" written by one of two very competent Historians, and while Elements
> of the Drama may differ from history, you can expect the basic facts, and
> flow of events is sculpted to conform to the Historical reality. I know
> Phillipa is very careful about this actually.*
>
> The Same with say Michael Crichton's The Andromeda Strain, Michael is in
> fact a Doctor, but also communicates a real understanding of how the
> Scientific Bureaucracy would respond to an unprecedented Crisis. ( I think)
>
> So I would then to disagree here, for me most of the Best Fiction is
> grounded in Fact, it is the Police Thriller written by someone with 20 years
> on the Job, the Medical Thriller written by an ER Nurse, For A Dramatization
> of the Missiles of October, you want the writer to understand Politics,
> Power, Human Nature, no: and so on ...
>
> So when Paulo says he is a Adept, he is, IMHO trying to put himself in that
> category; he is saying to the reader "I am someone inside the esoteric
> community, inside the Magickal disciplines" and he is promising you a peek,
> (a fictionalized peek) behind the curtain, - but if you promise your
> audience that - then I feel you can and should be called out when you are
> inaccurate, untrue to that community or discipline.
>
> I do Love Tolkien, sometimes things made up out of Whole Clothe can be
> quite wonderful, and Tolkien invested years of his life in creating a world
> as real and internally consistent as possible, as you likely know, before he
> gave the rest of the world a peek behind that curtain. I write some fiction
> myself, largely made up, but I try to ground the Magick in that Fiction to
> be true to Magick as I understand it in our world, (If more potent, but
> operating under the same basic rules. Personally I think it is important
> that a writer be as true as possible to the realities s/he is speaking to
> myself.
>
> Funny what you said, about men writing Female Characters though, most of my
> Characters are female, but that's because they flow it's easier for me to
> get into their minds and hearts, while when writing for male characters it
> tends to get stiff and awful. Ironic no? Anyhow I appreciate your thoughts
> and I hope my reply is not taken as a challenge per se, but you asked "Dont
> you think?" and actually my answer is quite different I think from yours.
>
> Blessings, BB.
>
> _____________________________________________
>
> *she did an Interview for Writers Magazine a year or so back you might find
> it at the Library, it's very interesting.
>
>
>
>
> --- In Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com, Mary Cooney <msweetness05@...>
> wrote:
> >
> Dont you think fiction is fiction though, are we supposed to believe
> fiction? When I read fiction, I don't take it as truth, its a story to me a
> beginning, middle and end. If it was a non fiction book that would be
> different and I would expect facts. In some of Coelho's books he makes a
> story out of accounts and experiences of other women and tries to tell it
> from a woman's point of view, ie "Eleven Minutes" which is all about sex and
> I read it as fiction, thats all because I dont believe a man can really know
> how a woman feels even to write about it. Just my opinion.
>
> Peace,
> Mary
>
>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (10)
2e.: Re: Brida - A Book Review. BB.

Posted by: "Mary Cooney" msweetness05@gmail.com sylvanmimi09

Mon Oct 4, 2010 7:23 pm (PDT)

The author of the Sweep series is Cate Tiernan and some of the books are
Book of Shadows, Awakening, Dark Magick etc.

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 9:01 PM, Mary Cooney <msweetness05@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi BB,
>
> Oh no, I love this kind of discussion because I never presume that my
> opinion is right, just an opinion. I think that I just didn't look at
> Paulo Coelho as an authoritarian on anything, he writes from his own
> experience and not every one has the same experience. I didn't take
> anything in Brida as true, just a story as I said. Now if I were reading
> something in the catagory of historical fiction such as Braveheart or Dances
> with Wolves then that would be totally different. I do agree with you there
> and think that if an author has the experience and writes about it, its
> credible. I stumbled upon Brida when I was looking through his books and I
> am always drawn to books about wicca and the craft. I am just learning
> about all this so I guess I am skeptical about somethings I do not
> understand yet.
>
> Which brings me to another book question. Have you read any in the Sweep
> series, like Book of Shadows, Coven etc,,,seems like another teen romance
> mixed with witchcraft sort of Buffy stuff to me. Have to look up the author
> but I was wondering if you read them, I picked up the first book which has
> three stories in it and started reading a paragraph or two,,,I was bored,
> the writing was awful and well, I am not sure how accurate it is???
>
> Peace,
> Mary
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Blackbird <blackbird_61@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Mary Said, "Dont you think fiction is fiction though, are we supposed to
>> believe fiction?"
>>
>> BB re: Actually, I would take a rather different Tack on that myself.
>>
>> If your reading say Tolkien, or more to the Point Harry Potter your
>> reading something you know to be "Completely made up' out of whole Clothe",
>> but if you read say, Phillipa Gregory, or Alison Weir, your reading
>> "Historical Fiction" written by one of two very competent Historians, and
>> while Elements of the Drama may differ from history, you can expect the
>> basic facts, and flow of events is sculpted to conform to the Historical
>> reality. I know Phillipa is very careful about this actually.*
>>
>> The Same with say Michael Crichton's The Andromeda Strain, Michael is in
>> fact a Doctor, but also communicates a real understanding of how the
>> Scientific Bureaucracy would respond to an unprecedented Crisis. ( I think)
>>
>> So I would then to disagree here, for me most of the Best Fiction is
>> grounded in Fact, it is the Police Thriller written by someone with 20 years
>> on the Job, the Medical Thriller written by an ER Nurse, For A Dramatization
>> of the Missiles of October, you want the writer to understand Politics,
>> Power, Human Nature, no: and so on ...
>>
>> So when Paulo says he is a Adept, he is, IMHO trying to put himself in
>> that category; he is saying to the reader "I am someone inside the esoteric
>> community, inside the Magickal disciplines" and he is promising you a peek,
>> (a fictionalized peek) behind the curtain, - but if you promise your
>> audience that - then I feel you can and should be called out when you are
>> inaccurate, untrue to that community or discipline.
>>
>> I do Love Tolkien, sometimes things made up out of Whole Clothe can be
>> quite wonderful, and Tolkien invested years of his life in creating a world
>> as real and internally consistent as possible, as you likely know, before he
>> gave the rest of the world a peek behind that curtain. I write some fiction
>> myself, largely made up, but I try to ground the Magick in that Fiction to
>> be true to Magick as I understand it in our world, (If more potent, but
>> operating under the same basic rules. Personally I think it is important
>> that a writer be as true as possible to the realities s/he is speaking to
>> myself.
>>
>> Funny what you said, about men writing Female Characters though, most of
>> my Characters are female, but that's because they flow it's easier for me to
>> get into their minds and hearts, while when writing for male characters it
>> tends to get stiff and awful. Ironic no? Anyhow I appreciate your thoughts
>> and I hope my reply is not taken as a challenge per se, but you asked "Dont
>> you think?" and actually my answer is quite different I think from yours.
>>
>> Blessings, BB.
>>
>> _____________________________________________
>>
>> *she did an Interview for Writers Magazine a year or so back you might
>> find it at the Library, it's very interesting.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com, Mary Cooney <msweetness05@...>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> Dont you think fiction is fiction though, are we supposed to believe
>> fiction? When I read fiction, I don't take it as truth, its a story to me a
>> beginning, middle and end. If it was a non fiction book that would be
>> different and I would expect facts. In some of Coelho's books he makes a
>> story out of accounts and experiences of other women and tries to tell it
>> from a woman's point of view, ie "Eleven Minutes" which is all about sex and
>> I read it as fiction, thats all because I dont believe a man can really know
>> how a woman feels even to write about it. Just my opinion.
>>
>> Peace,
>> Mary
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (10)
2f.: Re: Brida - A Book Review. BB.

Posted by: "Blackbird" blackbird_61@yahoo.com blackbird_61

Mon Oct 4, 2010 7:30 pm (PDT)

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the Series, but in a group our size one
would expect someone must be, and hopefully they will step forward and
pick up the tread.

I've enjoyed the chat too. Blessings, BB.

--- In Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com, Mary Cooney <msweetness05@...>
wrote:
>
The author of the Sweep series is Cate Tiernan and some of the books are
Book of Shadows, Awakening, Dark Magick etc.
On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 9:01 PM, Mary Cooney <msweetness05@gmail.com
</group/Witch_Essentials/post?postID=AJAcYSSGxn-KGuR7YiCzqXVvTP-jH4xvkMI\
HUC_p3ptySaRmKtxFlmJu-DvYQKpnc220hUowrxF_p4g_QJROP0U> > wrote:
Hi BB,

Oh no, I love this kind of discussion because I never presume that my
opinion is right, just an opinion. I think that I just didn't look at
Paulo Coelho as an authoritarian on anything, he writes from his own
experience and not every one has the same experience. I didn't take
anything in Brida as true, just a story as I said. Now if I were
reading something in the catagory of historical fiction such as
Braveheart or Dances with Wolves then that would be totally different.
I do agree with you there and think that if an author has the experience
and writes about it, its credible. I stumbled upon Brida when I was
looking through his books and I am always drawn to books about wicca and
the craft. I am just learning about all this so I guess I am skeptical
about somethings I do not understand yet.

Which brings me to another book question. Have you read any in the
Sweep series, like Book of Shadows, Coven etc,,,seems like another teen
romance mixed with witchcraft sort of Buffy stuff to me. Have to look
up the author but I was wondering if you read them, I picked up the
first book which has three stories in it and started reading a paragraph
or two,,,I was bored, the writing was awful and well, I am not sure how
accurate it is???

Peace,
Mary

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Messages in this topic (10)

3a.: Re: Samhain Info & Lore (Was: Disappointed Ignorance

Posted by: "Mary Cooney" msweetness05@gmail.com sylvanmimi09

Mon Oct 4, 2010 4:05 pm (PDT)

All I can say is that I understand what you mean but my opinion is that
christianity has done its best to make its theology the right one and
everyone else's the wrong way. Look at what they are doing to the muslims
right now all for the sake of politics. I think the motivation is fear,
fear of losing control and fear of having to face their own selves. Just
my opinion.

Peace,
Mary

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 11:16 AM, gaia_d <Gaia_D@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> --- In Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com, "nicoleh" <nikki_m_rusch26@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Merry Meet-
> >
> > I have a lot on my mind, and I am not looking to vent or anything- but
> this is one thing that I can't over look- I try to over look the ignorance
> of others because people are allowed to speak their mind. But why is it Non
> Wiccan,Pagan and others still believe that Halloween is a "Evil" holiday,
> time of the year? Do people not realize that Halloween is more than what it
> stood for back in the day? I came across a few websites and I am proud to
> say I have been studying and learning everything I can about Wicca, since I
> am 80% Irish I came across Wicca when I was 16 and I have felt the
> connection to the Celtic religion, anyway( ranting) I wanted to see what
> they had to say and I was horrified at what they had to say- I looked at the
> Exposingsatanism.org
> > just because it had a clip from Iowa and I can't believe that people say
> Wiccan's are pale white, fat( overweight) wear black robes, capes and kill
> animals. I wonder how do we educate people and help them understand that
> Witches do not Fly on a Broom stick, we don't kill animals and burn down
> churches. I am a solo witch and am comfortable with it, just wish that
> people were not ignorant. Witches are people too.
> > Blessed Be
> > (nikki)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> GAIA:
>
> Hi Nikki --
>
> The problem is that it's not "ignorance" -- It's PREJUDICE, and prejudice
> goes much deeper and is much more "ingrained" than mere ignorance.
> Ignorance is just lack of knowledge, and can be "cured" with education, but
> prejudice involves *conviction*.
>
> Some People are *certain* that Wiccans are evil because (they think) that's
> what their religion, their "sacred books" (the Bible) and their priests/
> ministers / "prophets" and leaders TELL them --
>
> That's much more serious than mere ignorance, and it's not often changed
> with mere education, because they beleive that the "education" is coming
> from people who just don't know as much (or have as much spiritual insight )
> as they do!
>
>
> At any rate, Here are some other good sites/ information on Samhain/
> Hallows for you --
>
>
>
> *Why We NEED Samhain/ Halloween:*
>
> (c) 2008 By Gaia_d@...<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Book_of_Shadows_and_Grimoire_Collection/post?postID=Yi8CzjYa8vExpGCumG5E11nJCntJxwpiSAKeoxpu4V2EhQOafFOYryCD3x9b2GEXkyMcvo-_biS4o28>- Please don't reproduce without permission
>
>
>
> All of us have a "Shadow" aspect, hidden deep within ourselves, that hides
> from othes and ourselves, all the things we cannot bear to recognize or
> acknowledge about ourselves -- fears, embarrassments, shames, "monsters",
> etc.
>
> "The Shadow acts like a psychic immune system,defining what is self and
> what is not-self. For different people, in different families and cultures,
> what falls into Ego and what falls into Shadow can vary. For instance, some
> permit anger or agression to be expressed, most do not. Some permit
> sexuality, vulnerability, or strong emotions; many do not. Some permit
> financial ambition, or artistic expression, or intellectual development,
> some do not.
>
> All the feelings and capacities that are rejected by the Ego and exiled
> into the Shadow contribute to the hidden power of the dark side of human
> nature. However, not all of them are what we consider to be negative
> traits. According to Jungian analyst Liliane Frey-Rohn, this dark treasury
> includes our infantile parts, emotional attachments, neurotic symptoms, as
> well as our undeveloped talents and gifts. The Shadow, she says, "retains
> contact with the lost depths of the soul, with life and vitality -- the
> superior, the univerally human, yes, even the creative can be sensed there."
> (Connie Zwieg and Jeremiah Abrams, "The Shadow Side of Everyday Life", in
> _Meeting the Shadow_, Zweig and Abrams, ed, pp xvi-xvii.)
>
>
> Not only individuals, but groups, cultures, countries, movments -- all have
> Shadows.
>
> Now, instead of denying, discounting, "prettifying", demonizing,
> trivializing, ignoring, "saving" or "killing" the Shadow -- as Christianity,
> New Age, and many other (Patriarchal) religions do; nearly every Shamanic,
> Pagan path has *built into it* a way in which the Seeker/ practitioner must
> eventually confront, work through, and incorporate the Shadow into their
> whole self. This is one of the major strengths of Paganism.
>
>
> (For those who would like a bit of a hint about how to proceed to contact
> the Shadow: think about the people who drive you *crazy* -- people or
> qualities that irritate the heck out of you, or who you feel are utterly
> despicable. They are most likely carrying some aspect of your Shadow. --
> A few warnings: Failure / refusal to do Shadow-work, ensures that
> eventually it will come back and bite you!
>
> THIS, btw, is what gets a lot of people into trouble when they first
> begin metaphysical/ magickal work - they try something that accesses their
> Shadow, for which they are totally unprepared.
> [This is generally what's going on when a beginner reports contacting "evil
> demons" with a seance or Ouija board -- a beginner simply does not have
> sufficient power or knowledge to actually conjur a demon -- what they have
> "conjured" is their own dark, dangerous, hungry, untamed Shadow.]
>
>
>
> NOrmally, our very dualistic culture denigrates and demonizes the Shadow --
> even ignores and suppresses it.
> For example, look at the way our culture deals with death. We don't like
> to talk about it, we ignore it and hope we can forget it. We seclude people
> who are near death so we don't have to confront the reality. We say things
> like, "passed on" to avoid the very word!
>
> The entire Insurance and Mortuary industr(ies) are both manifestations and
> perpetuations of our phobias around death. These are all manifestations of
> a kind of cultural mental illness around the whole issue of decline, death
> and decay.
>
> But thanks to ancient Pagan practices, which developed precisely because of
> the human need to confront and DEAL with these issues, Halloween gives us an
> opportunity to bring out and face those suppressed / repressed elements of
> our culture. We are brought face-to-face with our worst fears in the
> skeletons, skulls, graves, etc. We take this one time of year to EXORCISE
> some of our repressed fears -- and some of our mental illness. WE NEED
> HALLOWEEN. It forces us to confront our fears and loathing, get beyond
> them, and consider the fleeting nature of life -- thereby cherishing it even
> more.
>
> To try to "prettify" or "nice-ify" Halloween and avoid/ignore its "darker"
> aspects (by only doing "nice" costumes and "nice" themes) is to simply
> surrender to and perpetuate our cultural fear and loathing of perfectly
> natural processes -- which, btw, we will ALL have to face sooner or later --
> and inasmuch as we give in to that, we contribute to and perpetuate our
> mental illnesses and inability to face decline, death and decay in healthy,
> positive ways.
>
> HALLOWEEN IS GOOD FOR US, AND *NECESSARY* TO OUR MENTAL AND SPIRITUAL
> HEALTH.
>
>
>
> Blessed Be -
>
> ~Gaia
>
>
>
>
>
> *RESOURCES:*
>
>
>
> Here are some other good resources for Samhain Info and Lore:
>
> Article on Samhain by Kerr Cuhulain -
>
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=kui1LDJIW8EC&pg=PA243&lpg=PA243&dq=Samhain-+by+Kerr+Cuhulain&source=bl&ots=xS4upz__SN&sig=i25d67eqOad_J8X0h5Y1KKpYRiw&hl=en&ei=KCKmTPGkJI_UtQOZl4D-Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
> "The Origins of Halloween" By Rowan Moonstone -
> http://www.ecauldron.net/samhainfaq.php
>
> Samhain Info and Lore - By Lady Cerridwyn, HPs - http://www.paganart.net
>
> "The Real Origins of Halloween" by Isaac Bonewits -
> http://www.neopagan.net/Halloween-Origins.html
>
>
>
>
> >
>
>

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4.: cdw 3-5 The Emperor Rx

Posted by: "blackbird" blackbird_61@yahoo.com blackbird_61

Mon Oct 4, 2010 10:41 pm (PDT)

Hi All,

This weeks card deals with a delicate subject, but it's hung in my mind for a few days, and I really thought I should speak to this card. So we are going to spend some time with the Emperor, and more specifically the Emperor Rx, Now this is not the first time I have approached this card, I wrote another essay in 2003 that I think still has some value; in that essay I spoke of the Emperor as more of an Archetype, a Charactor we encounter in movies like Gladiator or Master and Commander; this week I am more thinking in terms of the card in the Context of Reading.

If you look at the card closely, especially the Lo Scarabeo, you will notice the Symbol of the Ram is Everywhere, the Emperor is Mars in Aries, or Saturn in Aries depending on your deck. This older Emperor hardly looks like Mars, not like the Handsome, and rather invitingly friendly face of the Emperor we see in the Gendron.

No here, in the Lo Scarabeo we have an Emperor who is concerned with Power, he is deeply tied to the Hierophant for if the Hierophant is the Guardian of Traditions, then the Emperor is their enforcer.

It is hard for us to Imagine in our century, in a time when change happens sooo very rapidly where NEW is assumed be improved, after all who wants last years car, computer, Madden, when you can have the New and Improved version, ...

But for Centuries this was not the Human Condition, the human condition was very different indeed; People, even well to do people lived on the Edge of Survival Communities where seldom more than a bad Harvest from Famine, or Starvation. This is why so many Pagan Holiday's are Harvests, the Harvest was very much a thing to Celebrate!!

In that time, with the margin for error sooooo small, Tradition kept people alive. Mothers and Fathers, Grandmothers and Grandfathers taught the young how things were done how to survive ... the terms of our covenant with God and Nature. And these were very important.

But we are living in a time of Change now... ,

I have seen changes that are hard to Imagine in my lifetime. I was 12 when Pat Ireland (former President of NOW) was the First Woman to Enter the Florida State Law School, and was told by her Advisor - she was wasting his time, and wasting a slot that should be held by some man. (Emperor Rx) Today there are more women in Law School than men.

If you ever have the Chance to see the Old 50's version of the War of the World, notice this; there is a scene where the two main characters escape the Martians into an abandoned Farm House. The next cut, and the woman is Frying Eggs. She's just seen her favorite uncle killed, survived a terrible battle, and slept in a ditch, but as if pulled by some invisible bungee cord, she cannot resist rushing into the kitchen to show the Main Character what a good little homemaker she is ... : The Unspoken assumptions are Amazing to our eyes.

And yet, not always so...
We are living in a time of Change, when I was a boy, Ralph Cramden was Still Bellowing on our TVs how "A Man's home was his Castle." and "One of these days Alice, pow right in the Kisser" Now Gleason's Ralph Cramden was harmless enough, and everyone watching knew Alice was his better half in every way, but still the subtext is there, and for many women of the time, their Ralph was not so Harmless.

Today Ralph is still with us, or Ralph Rx at Least, the other side of that Mirror, men who cannot or will not give up the notion they should own and control their woman. Men who don't just threaten Pow right in the Kisser, but are quite capable of actual violence.
To what ever extent the Old Gender Roles were once necessary, and to what extent they were just institutionalized cruelty, is a discussion for a collage course I think ... but their time is past now.

As readers we largely read for women, women are simply more accepting of Magick today, and sometimes that woman is being abused ... and then you will find it is not uncommon for the Emperor Rx so come up in her spread; and while you should not call 9-11 every time you get the Emperor Rx, never completely dismiss out of hand, the possibility of that message being hidden in the card.

In over 500 readings I have advised at least a couple dozen women to at least contact their local shelter and talk over their situation with an appropriate councilor, and have once been threatened for that myself.

We live in Changing times, and there is always resistance to change, no matter how beneficial, the Emperor Rx will very often speak to that Resistance.

Brightest Blessings, BB.

I am the Cup which holds Eternity.
All other Cups
Have their Source in Me.
The Goddess Innana.
I

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