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1a.: Re: What Is Wicca - (long article) From: Blackbird
1b.: Re: What Is Wicca - (long article) From: gaia_d
1c.: Re: What Is Wicca - (long article) From: Blackbird
1d.: Re: What Is Wicca - (long article) From: gaia_d

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1a.: Re: What Is Wicca - (long article)

Posted by: "Blackbird" blackbird_61@yahoo.com blackbird_61

Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:57 am (PDT)

Well it's been a whole day and no Wiccan's have replied. So ... So at
the risk of seeming self indulgent I am going to take a few moments to
respond so some points in Gaia's post.

First off ...
I should be absolutely clear that while I have been Pagan for 30 years
I've never considered myself Wiccan per se; but I have been a Pagan for
30 years, and as Wicca is the Largest, and far and away the most visible
expression of Paganism at least in this country (the US), What Wicca is,
just how it defines itself, and defines what is not Wiccan affects all
Pagans, certainly all American Pagans; indeed Wiccan has become
synonymous for most non-Pagan Americans I think.
Gaia Said: "one does not *become* Wiccan by reading, or just "claiming"
to be Wiccan -- That's a common misunderstanding and error among many
beginners. "

As I said yesterday, on this point I would fundamentally agree with
Gaia; in that it would seem to me to comparable to declaring oneself
Baptist, or Jewish by Feat; no matter how deeply, and with what
reverence I might study the Native American Medicine Religion I cannot
declare myself a Hoppi, its simply not true. But there is a rather large
fly in this ointment. ...

* A Witches' Bible: The Complete Witches' Handbook by Stewart Farrar
and Janet Farrar
* Wicca For One: The Path Of Solitary Witchcraft by Raymond Buckland
* Buckland's Book of Saxon Witchcraft by Raymond Buckland
* Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner (Includes Author's
Book of Shadows) by Scott Cunningham
* The Spiral Dance: A Rebirth of the Ancient Religion of the Goddess:
Starhawk.

The reality is that many persons have every right to counter with the
Argument, we have been invited into the Wiccan Community, Invited to
consider ourselves Wiccan's by no Less Authorities than Buckland and
Farrar; that we have been invited by persons of High Stature in the
Pagan Community like Cunningham, Grimmasi, and Starhawk to consider
ourselves Pagans.

Indeed 30 years ago,
My own story was not only Quite common, it was I believe the prevailing
Narrative; a person stumbles across a copy of the Spiral Dance, or
Living Wicca in a 'Odd Little Bookstore' and found hidden in the pages
with-in a text that resonated so deeply with their own soul, they could
only describe the experience by saying ... I had come home, I had always
felt like that, and now, finally, I found a place where I belonged. This
was my own story, this was and is the Story of many others, and I feel
strongly about turning people out here.

So most of us Began, and I believe most of us still begin with a Book.
..

And for myself with a Dedication to Isis, since I have been drawn more
and more to Innana, and today I consider myself her servant; but Isis is
still very dear to me for having opened that door; but I have a deep
resonance with Desert Goddesses, and the Desert itself, and have never
had any desire to be Wiccan, with it's very Celtic orientation. So I was
accidentally spared the awkwardness of declaring myself Wiccan when I
had no right too, but only accidentally. When I was younger, and deeply
under the spell of Carlos Castaneda, I certainly toyed with the Idea of
imagining myself as a Nagual; but I have no right to that title either,
and ultimately made the right choice there.

Just the same ...
The invitation to consider oneself Wiccan is out there; and is signed by
some of the most important founding names in the craft. One certainly
cannot blame those to accept that invitation for accepting it, or so it
seems to me. Nor IMHO should Wicca dismiss 'Neo-Wicca' as a MisMash.

So what to do?
IMHO, the Larger Pagan community will be better served if Wicca as whole
comes to accept it is no longer simply an Initiatory religion, but it
has a Laity; and Inner Court, and Outer Court, for want of better terms;
As I for one reject the elitism implied in those terms. After all
Wiccan's do see themselves as Pagan Clergy, and Frankly that sometimes
bothers me as much as Self Initiated Wiccan's Bother Gaia.

Gaia Said; We are, by the definition offered above, clergy, which means
that our ability to realize ourselves individually and spiritually is
tied into religious service to the broader Pagan community and to the
broader human community.

I am Pagan, as such Most of my Friends are Wiccan; and I have even been
invited to perform the hand-fasting of two good friends. So I am not
totally wack here. At the same time as a self Described Servant of
Innana, if I should pass the Rites I would want read over my remains,
are rites any literate Pagan could read. The invokation of Innana is
something I feel anyone with any Magickal talent could perform, but it
would be in no-way Wiccan per se.

So while Wiccan's may see themselves as Priestesses and Priests to the
Larger Pagan community, I myself have serious questions if that view is
at all appropriate, we are Devotee's of Ra, Innana, Thor ... If one
casts the net Wider, we have more in common with Hindu's, Native
Americans, and African teachings than we do the Abrahamic Religions.
"Wicca is a *particular* path, with *particular* principles and
practices" and beliefs I would add; and as a Servant of Innana, I know
the very Ancient vision of Goddess Laid down by Enheduanna, is a vision
of Wrath and Power a good many Wiccan's could never embrace; certainly
not all. IMHO Wicca should embrace and focus on its own growing Laity,
not presume they are clergy to Pagans that may, or may not share their
vision.

At the Same time a Vibrant Healthy Growing Wicca is absolutely a benefit
to the larger Pagan community. I have learned almost all I have learned
of the Craft of Magick through Wiccan Sources; but there is a division
between the Craft of Magick, and Religious Devotion, and I have been
pretty good at keeping them to their appropriate domains. It is
precisely why I participate in Witch Essentials, matters of Craft,
especially divination that I do understand I am more than happy to share
with my Wiccan Friends and Fellow Pagans, in return I learn much from
them. Sometimes through teaching, sometimes through truly being the
student; but my life would be sadly diminished without Wiccan's in it;
as fellow Pagans we have so much to learn from each other.

Well that's a chunk, Tomorrow or Monday, we shall touch on the Mysteries
shall we?

Brightest Blessings All, BB.

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1b.: Re: What Is Wicca - (long article)

Posted by: "gaia_d" Gaia_D@yahoo.com gaia_d

Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:56 am (PDT)

BLACKBIRD:

The reality is that many persons have every right to counter with the
Argument, we have been invited into the Wiccan Community, Invited to
consider ourselves Wiccan's by no Less Authorities than Buckland and
Farrar; that we have been invited by persons of High Stature in the
Pagan Community like Cunningham, Grimmasi, and Starhawk to consider
ourselves Pagans.

GAIA:

Yes – but again, we need to remember that there's a *difference*
between "Wiccan" and "Pagan".

BB:

Just the same ...
The invitation to consider oneself Wiccan is out there; and is signed by
some of the most important founding names in the craft. One certainly
cannot blame those to accept that invitation for accepting it, or so it
seems to me. Nor IMHO should Wicca dismiss 'Neo-Wicca' as a MisMash.

GAIA:

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "consider oneself
Wiccan", and I'm not entirely sure where you're getting this
from – I guess I'd appreciate some quotes so I can address what
was actually said.

Again, One is *not* Wiccan by just reading a book, or taking upon
themselves the title of "Wiccan".

BB:

IMHO, the Larger Pagan community will be better served if Wicca as whole
comes to accept it is no longer simply an Initiatory religion, but it
has a Laity; and Inner Court, and Outer Court, for want of better terms;
As I for one reject the elitism implied in those terms.

GAIA:

Well, you're entitled to reject whatever you want - -But again, you're
not Wiccan, so with all due respect, I'm not sure that your "vote"
counts as much more than just that -- your personal opinion.

I haven't discussed with you terms like "Initiatory Mystery Religion",
so i'm not sure what all your objections are; I can say that this
bugaboo of "elitism" often crops up with people who don't understand
those terms very well -- but (with all due respect) that is no reason
for Wiccans to reject the terms or their meaning and place in Wiccan
theology and practice.

Here's an important article (quoted by Ellen Cannon Reed in her book,
"The HEart of Wicca") that discusses those words/ concepts in some
depth, and i think helps clarify some of the confusion that causes such
concerns.

[NOTE: Reed suggests replacing the words "Pagan" and "Paganism" with
Wiccan and Wicca where appropriate.]

"Paganism at the Crossroads" by Sky toucher (From "Enchante'" Magazine)

These are tricky and dangerous times. Paganism has grown in size to the
point where we no longer enjoy the luxury of obscurity. We now face a
choice that all initiatory paths face at some time in their development:
Whether to remain a viable initiatory path, and if so under what
circumstances; or to devolve into a mere religion.

I'd better backtrack-some readers may not understand what an initiatory
path is, or how it differs from a religion. Others may think paganism is
a religion already, and wonder what I mean by suggesting it is or could
be something else.

A defense often used against fundamentalist Christians and others who
attack paganism on a religious basis is to say, "We are not like you,
only different in a few not-so-important ways. We are a religion, like
you, another belief system, harmless, ordinary. We worship the Earth,
the Goddess, the same way you worship your abstract God. You should
extend tolerance to us for the same reason you extend it to Muslims or
Buddhists or Catholics or Jews. When you single us out as something
weird, you are exhibiting hysterical paranoia." It's an effective
defense, but somewhat disingenuous

We are different. We aren't just a religion. We are at present, and in
my view should try to remain, a path of initiation. It may be inevitable
that a religion grow up around us. It may even be desirable to employ
such a religion as a cloak, or a doorway, to both. But a Pagan religion
is also a threat to the Pagan path of initiation. We need to ensure that
the growth, if it occurs, is that of a tree from a
seed, hot of a pearl from a grain of sand

What is an initiatory path? And what, then, is initiation? We touch here
upon a word badly misunderstood by many Pagans. Initiation is one thing;
an initiation ritual is another. A person is not an initiate, in the
sense I mean here, just because he or she has passed through an
initiation ritual. Initiation is a personal experience in which one
becomes aware of mysteries-realities that were previously hidden, that
cannot be communicated by one person to another in words or symbols,
that must be experienced directly, firsthand. This last point is
crucial. One finds "mysteries" communicated in coven initiations or even
at festivals, but these are only hidden meanings of symbols and tools
used in the Craft, or of stories told about the Gods. The fact that they
can be communicated makes them not true mysteries, only secrets.

A body of teaching, practice, and ritual that facilitates initiation is
an initiatory path. Most religions start out as paths of initiation.

Religion tends to be conservative. Initiation, however, is always
revolutionary.

Initiation transforms a person's life, bringing inner peace, greater
insight into the workings of fate, and awareness of the connections
linking all things, as well as magical power. If it were a common-place
event, if people went through initiation as surely as they go through
puberty, we would have a far different and better world.

Even if the circle of initiates included a significant minority of the
population, the magical effect of such a number of altered minds on the
world would be profound and positive. Of course, this very fact means
that initiatory paths will be opposed by those interests, both human and
non-human, that are opposed to positive change.
The opposition is not really a conspiracy; it seems more than an
automatic reaction, a law of nature.

Initiation is not an instantaneous event, but one that occurs through
years of effort and devotion. It seems likely that there is no end to
the process, and that the idea of there being a "fully enlightened
being" is a peculiar Oriental fantasy. There are times, it is true, when
revelation comes in a flash like lightning, but such moments are
exclamation marks punctuating a story that unfolds chapter by
chapter.

Many tools and methods for achieving initiation have evolved over the
ages. Some are intellectual, aiming to expand consciousness through
thought: Vedanta and the Qabala come to mind as among the most
impressive. Others are ritual or devotional, such as Bakhti Yoga,
chanting the names of the Gods, drawing down the Moon, the meditations
of the monastics. Some are also physical:

Hatha Yoga, Sufi dancing, some forms of the martial arts. Some aim at
expanding consciousness directly by stretching it to its limits:
meditation, Raja Yoga, guided visualization, vision quests. Then there
is sex magic, drugs, drumming, austerities, the use of talismans,
self-discipline, and so on. Most of these techniques evolved outside a
pagan context, but they are amenable to incorporation in a pagan
framework. Initiation rituals, of course, are another method, but they
are seldom sufficient by themselves.

Initiates can be found in the context of any religion, including those
least similar to Neopaganism. St. Francis of Assisi was an initiate, and
many a Sufi and Qabalist, Buddhist and Yogi, Taoist and shaman. A modern
Neopagan initiate has far more in ~ommon with them than with an
illiterate, superstitious pagan of the Roman Empire, gobbling the flesh
of sacrificed animals while contemplating how to backstab his
competitors. All initiates of all paths have a common heart ; It is
religions that circles the periphery of the Sacred, that differ.

But, while Christian, Jewish, and Muslim initiates do exist, the
established religions don't make it easy. For every illuminated Catholic
saint, there are hundreds of burned heretics. Indeed, many
post-Constantinian saints escaped burning themselves only by miracles
greater than those for which they were canonized. Burning is passe
nowadays, but condemnation for heresy is not, and thrives as well in
most Protestant denominations. So bound about with the fetters of faith
is the Christian that initiation is virtually impossible, except for
their boldest and best minds.

This is no accident ..

The tragedy of Christianity is that it began so well and decayed so
quickly into such a parody of its beginnings. This isa recurring
phenomenon. again and again, the initiatory message has presented itself
in some new form and met with some success, only to be hidden in a maze
of illusion, crusted over with barriers and restrictions.

There are always counterattacks from outside the new path, from
established religions, but the truly effective counterattacks also come
from within, so that what began as a bright new hope becomes a mere
religion. The priests, the figures in authority, forge an instrument for
the furtherance of their own authority, to which genuine initiation is a
serious threat. The initiatory impulse is carefully bled off into
harmless channels, and all magic outside those channels is ruthlessly
suppressed.

There is a great deal of magic in Christian monastic orders, and more
still in Hindu and Buddhist ashrams, or wielded by wandering saddhus.
But many of these illuminated' souls, both Western and 'Eastern, are
sworn to poverty, chastity, humility. Many do not reproduce, ensuring
that, if there is a genetic component to magic, it will be weakened by
removing its best practitioners from the gene pool.
Too, in renouncing the world, they ensure that their spiritual insight
will play a small role shaping events. In contrast, a few secret
initiatory paths remain active and true to their original mission. These
paths, which include Hermeticism, the Qabala, surviving shamanic
traditions, and a few branches of Sufism, have made themselves
nonthreatening in a different way. They continue to live in the world
and to learn and teach practical as well as spiritual magic, but in such
tiny numbers and in so furtive a fashion that they hold little promise
of genuine large-scale transformation. There is not really anything
wrong with this; such secret orders have acted over the centuries to
preserve the Mysteries, not to spread them. Without them, efforts to
break the chains on a large scale would be to no avail. But Paganism
is different.

Neopaganism is unique --at this time, though not historically-- in that
it is a genuine initiatory path that has grown large. Moreover, in its
diversity and flexibility, its protean and progressive nature, it
promises to incorporate all the virtues of the other surviving paths. It
may not be the most advanced, the most powerful, or the most
aesthetically refined, but these characteristics can all be absorbed
from the smaller paths that possess them, for Paganism is an
all-gobbling magical amoeba, sucking up the myths, methods, and
knowledge of
every other path in existence. Once again, an initiatory path threatens
to break out and make some changes in reality.

On schedule, opposition has begun to arise.

As always, some of the opposition is from the outside, but I don't think
we need to be concerned about that. A strain of paranoia is built into
our origin myths and traditions, and is always a greater danger than the
persecution we fear. The external opposition has seldom been very
effective against any path. Some right-wing Christians are beginning to
engage in Witch-hunting of a relatively genteel sort, mostly involving
propaganda. However, propaganda is legitimate (they have a right to
express their opinions about what we do, as we have the right to speak
in counterpoint). There may be more serious difficulties, even
occasional violence, but the Burning Times are gone for good, barring a
complete collapse of civilization.
We have more important things to worry about within our own ranks.

The rapid increase in our numbers in the last few decades means there
are many newcomers. Newcomers are ripe for exploitation, both monetarily
and politically, and both have begun to occur. The first fills me with
amusement and outrage. The second is more alarming.

There seems to be a growing desire in some quarters to commercialize
Neo-paganism and profit from it That's only natural, but when crystal
athames go for $1,400 and classes are taught in return for a pledge of a
percentage of the students' income in perpetuity, somebody is getting
fleeced. This is bad enough, but not nearly as bad as what might happen
in reaction. Better a crowd of poorer and wiser novices, the hucksters
filling the role of the Dweller on the Threshold, than a Paganism
reduced from a path of initiation to a mere religion, its bright promise
gone dull, as have so many others.

The seeds of this development lie chiefly in individuals we might call
Pagan politicians, and in our response to them. They may not be high
initiates or powerful magicians, but they are skillful at organizing;
they like to strike poses in public, and they know how to work the
media.

An experienced initiate is unlikely to be moved by a picture on
television, or a story in the newspaper. It is otherwise for a novice.
When first appraising something, it is the surface one sees. And there
are two dangers in this trend:

1.Insightful, intuitive, independent people --the kind who would make
good Witches --may be turned off by the media spectacle. (Analogy: What
is your reaction to the words, "new age?")2

2. Ellen's reaction? It rhymes with "sewage."

2.Those who are not repelled may develop a kind of mundane
"Neopaganism," a mere religion, based as other religions are on faith,
dogma, and prescribed observances, conservative (in the sense of
resisting progress, not of voting Republican) and anti-initiatory. There
may be points in common between it and us (such as an environmental
ethic or "worship" [how I despise that word!] of a Goddess), as a baboon
might wear a tuxedo, but the heart and soul would be gone. Anyone who
sought initiation would have to pass the gauntlet of this other paganism
first and then unlearn this religion to approach the new path. Few could
be expected to do so.

It is important to recognize these politicos for what they are. They are
our would-be clergy who, like Christian priests, Muslim mullah and
Jewish rabbis, would be religious leaders but, with rare exceptions, no
initiates. Their authority would derive from knowledge of accepted
doctrines and from political acumen, rather than spiritual awareness.
Pagan pontiff pretenders are not necessarily malevolent, but they do not
comprehend the purpose of initiation or the fundamental ways in which
Paganism differs, not just from this or that religion, from all
religions. Consequently, they do not understand that priests, ministers,
rabbis, and so forth are not good role models for Pagan spiritual
leaders, even if allowances are made for differing value systems. ~s
currently practiced, is not simply a diferent religion, but a different
category of thing altogether.
-------

The bishops who created the Catholic Church were not particularly evil
men. But they were misguided, and the result of their labor was
disastrous. Yet some movement on this road is inevitable. It is the
fruit of growth, a sign that a path of initiation has matured into a
serious threat to the status quo. It represents a counterattack by the
forces of inertia.

Let's not be unduly alarmist. We are not in immediate danger, but the
clouds can be seen on the horizon, and we need to prepare ourselves, and
consider whether anything can be done to avoid the usual fate of an
initiatory path at the crossroads. All our predecessors, on reaching
this juncture, have taken the wrong turning.
But we have advantages former initiatory paths lacked. That no one has
succeeded up to now is not so imposing an obstacle as it might seem.

One of our advantages is the First Amendment to the United States
Constitution and similar provisions, in fact and tradition if not law,
guaranteeing religious liberty in all Western democracies. It is
literally impossible for a Pagan Catholic Church, even if one comes into
existence, to exile or execute dissident Pagans, as was done to
dissident Christians after the Council of Nicaea. It is unlikely that
any Pagan organization, or that of any other religion, could get a
modern Western government to do its dirty work to any significant
degree. Overt persecution is reduced from a terror to a nuisance.
That's no small achievement.

Another advantage is modern information technology. Communication of
ideas is now so easy, and suppression of them so difficult, that to
contain, channel, or eliminate the initiatory message will be harder
than ever before, and may be impossible. Of course, the downside of this
development is the proliferation of blatant nonsense. But I think that
is an acceptable price. Better the truth be heard whispering through
shouted lies and bellowed folly than that it not be heard at all.

The third, 'most subtle, and possibly the greatest advantage we have
over our predecessors is science. By science I do not mean any
particular bit of knowledge that has been uncovered by scientists,
although all that is useful as well. I mean the attitudes of science. I
mean the methods of science. Above all, I mean the vision of science.
Thanks to science, we no longer think of all knowledge as being handed
down to us from the past. Thanks to science, we can consider magic not
only in its sacred and spiritual and aesthetic dimensions-though these
are certainly important-but in its technical dimensions as well, and
seek the laws and principles that underpin magic, analogous to the laws
of physics that underpin technology.

And best of all-thanks to science-we are not limited to what we know
today. We understand that even our best picture of reality is only an
approximation, that we will have a better picture tomorrow. This gift
promises to upset the creeping authoritarianism that has ruined so many
paths of initiation and created so many religions.

These are potent advantages. I believe they allow us the possibility of
success. But not the certainty. As we approach the crossroads, there are
a number of things that need doing. Some of these steps are simply a
matter of keeping our attitudes in the right places.
Others involve research, development, and artistic creation. Others
still involve magical tasks.

We need to understand that modern Paganism, though built on the past, is
not limited by it, that we are capable of improving on our ancestor's
wisdom-even to the extent that we can make sure that their wisdom is not
just a product of our own romantic imagination, which in large measure
it is. We need to recognize, once and for all (and say so), that our
myths of origin are just that-myths. Wicca is not a survival from the
pre-Christian past, but an eclectic/creative construct meant to imitate
what such a survival should ideally be. Its resemblance, and that of
Neo-paganism in general, to ancient paganism in any of its multitude of
forms is slight and ultimately beside the point.

We need to make these changes of mindset because they will allow us to,
take the next step, which is to expand Paganism, as a path of
initiation, to its potential. We cannot do that as long as we are locked
into an old model --real or romanticized. The initiatory paths of the
past have failed. Therefore, we need something better than what has gone
before. We can take the essentials of Neo-paganism, the broad strokes of
its mythology and ritual, as a starting point, but we must go beyond
that start.

First, we need to penetrate beneath the level of religious symbolism to
what might be called the physics of magic, the nuts and bolts and laws
of nature that account for what magic does and is. Next the initiatory
experience itself, which can never be communicated or replaced by
anything --that point cannot be emphasized too much or too often --the
physics of magic would be the deepest level of understanding, accounting
for all forms of symbolic knowledge.

Secondly, we need to improve our tool chest of spiritual methods. Much
of the work has already been done by initiates outside Paganism. All we
have to do ,is translate it and incorporate it within our own framework.
At the same time, an expanded and improved body of poetic ritual would
be useful.

These things have already begun to happen, but the pace should be
accelerated. A common recognition of both the possibility and the need
would be a valid step. We must acknowledge that yoga can meditate us
into a corner, that the Qabala theorizes rings around us, and that any
good shamanic lineage works magic to put us to shame. We must also
insist that Paganism has advantages over these that should not be
surrendered, and work to incorporate what other paths can teach us into
our own framework.

These accomplishments would serve to strengthen and fortify the
initiatory path of Paganism. It will need aH the strength it can get if
it is to resist turning into a religion. But there are other things that
need doing as well, on both the communicative and magical fronts .

Those of us with active pens can communicate the idea of an initiatory
path that lies within the mythical and ritual structure of the Pagan
religion. There is, at present, no established Pagan doctrine or dogma,
no established Pagan clergy, and no established Pagan pantheon, and this
also must be made clear.

The magical side of the battle may be the most important one.

Here, the guiding principle should be a clear visualization of what we
want Paganism to be. Should exoteric Pagan religions grow up around the
initiatory core, then, ideally, we would want the priests or priestesses
of this religion to be initiates. But this may not be practicable.
First, many of us are unsuited for (or uninterested in) the role of
ministering to those who are unready for initiation. Second, there may
be too many newcomers to Paganism (by some estimates the fastest-growing
religion in North America) and too few initiates.

I believe we could agree on two goals. A viable and visible initiatory
tradition must be maintained within the religion, and no exoteric
priesthood must be allowed to gain preeminence over the path. To those
ends, then, the following magical workings are suggested.

Weave the Net: There is a tenuous telepathic link among all initiates.
This can be invoked as part of the opening of any major magical work,
which will strengthen both the work and the net. Some covens and
individuals already do this. Reach out the heart's fiery hand and feel
the love of one another, both within the coven and beyond it, setting
aside the quarrels of the mind, poles of a tipi each supporting each,
moving faster and faster circles made of love. In this way, a
synergistic entity, a collective consciousness, may be generated,
incorporating all our diversity-yet stronger than any of us alone. This
consciousness can be invoked like any deity, and can be a guide and an
empowerment. We can give it names; there will be private names known to
individual covens or solitaries, but among
us all the name is Love.

Shine like a Beacon: Another working, which I feel is appropriate to a
Full Moon ritual, is one to avoid the light-under-a-bushel syndrome, to
illuminate all minds equipped with eyes to see. The metaphor of a
lighthouse beacon seems appropriate; we can visualize this light shining
brightly, overpowering any attempt to hide it, so that truth cannot be
hidden from those able to understand it, initiation cannot be denied to
those capable of attaining it.

Let a Hundred Flowers Bloom: Or, divide and rule. Assume that a mundane
Paganism must arise; above all we must not allow any one sect or
denomination of the Pagan religion to achieve preeminence over the
others. It doesn't matter how much we like or dislike what the leaders
of this or that sect are saying. Any Pagan doctrine will always be
wrong, even if it's right, because initiation cannot be conveyed in
words or symbols. We can, through our magic, encourage diversity and
creativity in the ranks of newcomers and non-initiate leaders,
preferring chaos to conformity, and subtly bend the path of discourse so
that it leads toward initiation rather than away from it. We must avoid
the temptation to encourage a unified, strong Paganism, and that
temptation will arise! A fractious, splintered, disorganized, and
confusingly multi-headed Paganism may be somewhat embarrassing when it
appears on network news or in Time magazine. But if the initiatory
tradition is clearly visible within, we will be far better served by
chaos than by an order that serves its own purposes and not ours.

I believe-certainly, I hope-that these steps can preserve the Neo-pagan
path of initiation, prevent its burial under the mantle of religion, and
permit what has never before happened: genuine, large-scale,
beyond-the-point-of-no-return breakoutof the Mysteries, leading to the
transformation of human culture and this planet-assuming, of course,
that civilization survives the crisis of the coming years.

(End SkyToucher's article)

~

Ellen Cannon Reed's comments:

I could not have said it better myself. I am not at all sure I could
have said it as well. In the years since this article was published, I
am afraid that some of Sky toucher's fears have been realized.
Paganism itself is no longer an initiatory path. There are lots of
"pagans" out there who don't even really believe in the Gods, lots of
"witches" who still practice Christianity, lots who call themselves
"pagan" or "Wiccan" because they think it's cool, not because of any
desire to follow a spiritual path.

There are also many who claim the name "Wiccan" while refusing to have
anything to do with the path's beliefs or tenets that I have known,
practiced, and taught for over twenty-three years. Once, when I
commented on that to a self-proclaimed Wiccan, he said, "Change happens.
It's called evolution."

I most vehemently disagree. Watering down is not evolution. If they are
to claim that their path evolved from mine, they are wrong. You cannot
evolve from something you never were. In order for their path to be an
evolution of mine, they would have had to start in the same place, be
standing on the same foundation I am standing on, that all of us in
Sothistar and Ashesh Hekat are standing on. You can't call this
watering-down evolution from my path when they don't have the slightest
idea what that path is!

It's also true that a lot of the major traditions, who are every bit as
traditional as I am, view Wicca as only a fertility religion, containing
no aspect of a Mystery path. For that matter, there are traditional
Wiccans who don't think anyone is Wiccan without an Alexandrian or
Gardnerian heritage.

I shall not argue with them, it serves no purpose. I will still state my
case for Wicca as I see it. It does exist. We hope to preserve it.

In addition to expressing his concerns for the future, and his ideas for
strengthening the path, Sky toucher has given some definitions that fit
very well with my own feelings about Wicca.
More will be said on these various points in the chapters to follow.
Most importantly, however, he's told you what an initiatory path is all
about, what Mysteries are, and that should give you a basis for
understanding what this book is about.

Our tradition, and the traditions you'll see represented here, continue
to teach Wicca as an initiatory path. While the following may not apply
to all those traditions, I can speak with assurance about the two covens
I know well. We all have lengthy training programs that demand time and
effort from the student. We expect this work to be given high priority
by the student. We expect degrees to be earned. We all take the terms
"Priest" and "Priestess" very seriously. Not one of our covens is a
consensus coven.

Our coven leaders are not facilitators or leaders of support groups. Our
covens are not clubs open to the public; we have fairly rigid
requirements for entrance. We are all firm believers in the value of
tradition. All the leaders of these covens have worked hard for years to
learn what was necessary to lead a coven, are still learning, and will
continue to study, grow, and learn while we live. '

Our lives were long ago given to the God and Goddess we honor. That is
the depth of the commitment we've made to this path, and that we hope
our students will make. Believe me, the path has proven itself worth
that commitment.

I've met people who told me that Wicca was much too simplistic to be a
fulfilling way of life. They don't have a clue what the Wicca we
practice is all about. It's anything but simplistic.
When you come to understand a bit of what this lifestyle entails, you'll
find it has great depth and complexity. The following chapters will, I
hope, show some of that depth, and more about this path we have all
cherished, the path we struggle to preserve.

Ellen Cannon Reed, "The Heart of Wicca" pp 1-15.

BB:

So while Wiccan's may see themselves as Priestesses and Priests to the
Larger Pagan community, I myself have serious questions if that view is
at all appropriate,we are Devotee's of Ra, Innana, Thor ...

GAIA:

Well, initiated Wiccans *are* initiated "Priest/ess and Witch"
– so they *are* Clergy. A First Degree Wiccan is considered
"Clergy" to and for him (or her) Self; A Second Degree Wiccan is
beginning to move out into the larger Wiccan community and act as Clergy
for the Coven and Tradition in which they're trained and initiated
(under the supervision of a Third Degree High Priest/ess); and a Third
Degree is considered High Priest/ess and Clergy to pretty much anyone
who comes to their door.

–Now, if a particular Pagan doesn't *want* a particular Wiccan
to "be clergy" to or for them, that's fine – all they
need do is make that clear. I don't think any Wiccan High
Priest/ess would be foolish or presumptuous enough to attempt to
*force* the issue on someone who doesn't welcome it!

Blessings -

~Gaia

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1c.: Re: What Is Wicca - (long article)

Posted by: "Blackbird" blackbird_61@yahoo.com blackbird_61

Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:59 pm (PDT)

Well obviously this is going to take a day or three to digest and come
up with an appropraite reply, so ... I will have to take time enough to
provide a worthwhile reply, Blessings, BB.

--- In Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com, "gaia_d" <Gaia_D@...> wrote:
>
>
> BLACKBIRD:
>
> The reality is that many persons have every right to counter with the
> Argument, we have been invited into the Wiccan Community, Invited to
> consider ourselves Wiccan's by no Less Authorities than Buckland and
> Farrar; that we have been invited by persons of High Stature in the
> Pagan Community like Cunningham, Grimmasi, and Starhawk to consider
> ourselves Pagans.

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1d.: Re: What Is Wicca - (long article)

Posted by: "gaia_d" Gaia_D@yahoo.com gaia_d

Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:00 pm (PDT)

--- In Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com, "Blackbird" <blackbird_61@...> wrote:
>
>
> Well obviously this is going to take a day or three to digest and come
> up with an appropraite reply, so ... I will have to take time enough to provide a worthwhile reply, Blessings, BB.

GAIA:

Sure, i understand -- Take all the time you need!

B*B -
~Gaia

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2.1.: File - Warning about Grouply.txt

Posted by: "Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com" Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com

Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:04 am (PDT)

Once more, please be reminded that Yahoo FORBIDS ITS MEMBERS to belong to "Grouply":

Warning about Grouply.Com

You will not be allowed to join this group with a 'grouply' email
account.

This is a new site which advertises they can make accessing your
groups faster and easier. Most of us are too seasoned to fall for
something like this, but I am posting this as CYA.

This is what happens when you join:

"First, when a member joins, it automatically changes their primary
email address for the groups, giveing them a @grouply.com extension.
This is being done unaware to those who are joining.

Secondly, members who join the grouply website are having to give
their member ID and password. This opens up a security issue for
those members.

Thirdly, once a member joins grouply, it opens access to the files
and posts of each group to the grouply website. Grouply staff can
then access these files. If they get hacked, then it opens the doors
to the groups getting hacked as well. It has also been reported that
it's generating a lot of spam already."

In other words, information from a group can be made accessable to
everyone, and massive amounts of spam with your email address can be
generated.

The following information tells you the steps which needed to be taken
if someone has joined Grouply.com

IDENTIFY THEFT AT GROUPLY.COM

There is a message going out to different Yahoo Groups advertising
and suggesting that you join a new group called GROUPLY. This group
claims to help manage all your Yahoo groups and you will get a
summary, at the end of the day, telling you what is going on in all
your groups.

IF YOU JOIN THIS GROUP, they use your Yahoo ID and password to
post "mass mailings" (can be junk, can be porno) and send them to
anyone, and since it's YOUR ID they are using, others will think it
is coming from you.

For instance, you could get an email CLAIMING that it came
from "emagic2" Yahoo group and it really is not from this group. I
could get an email, with this mass mailing, claiming it came from me,
and it wouldn't have been from me.

Again, IF YOU HAVE JOINED THIS GROUP called "GROUPLY" IMMEDIATELY
leave Grouply. Then go into your account at:
http://groups. yahoo.com/ mygroups and change your password. Some
groups have posted that this will help. Unsubbing from that group
won't make a difference (but I think you will want to) so change your
Yahoo Password.

By joining this group you have also exposed all your groups, group
members and group leaders to hacking of their emails and group
information.

Because of this problem, all members with a email grouply.com are
being removed from the affected groups. This is the only way to
protect all the members. This is how Identity theft gets going.
They now have your real email, your yahoo emails, any emails listed
in your yahoo group and can mail as you in and out of the yahoo
groups.

I hope you understand what is happening and will take precautions to
protect your Yahoo ID.

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3a.: File - Do NOT Send Invitations to other Groups.txt

Posted by: "Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com" Witch_Essentials@yahoogroups.com

Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:04 am (PDT)

On Sending our Members "Invitations" to Other Groups:

PLEASE NOTE:

It is against the rules of many Groups to use their membership lists to "mine" names for other Groups -- including "social networking" Groups -- and this includes Witch Essentials.

You would be wise to ASK PERMISSION of Group Owners or Moderators, BEFORE sending any "invitations" to other groups, to them or their members.

Sincerely -
~Gaia, Group Moderator

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