vineri, 15 octombrie 2010

[Earthwise] Digest Number 2437

Messages In This Digest (9 Messages)

1a.
Re: looking for a teacher. From: Moloch
1b.
Re: looking for a teacher. From: Moloch
1c.
Re: looking for a teacher. From: mary
1d.
Re: looking for a teacher. From: tkdblake93
1e.
Re: looking for a teacher. From: karla mata
2a.
Re: intro From: Jack Noah
3.1.
Re: Intro From: Jack Noah
4.
Arizona From: James Ximerson
5.
Yep, You Guessed It... More Shamanic Linguistics From: Kenaz Filan

Messages

1a.

Re: looking for a teacher.

Posted by: "Moloch" moloch@molochsorcery.com   xx_moloch_xx

Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:10 am (PDT)



Lead you away from your wiccan beliefs??? How long have you had a
reading comprehension disability, Karla? Because obviously you are
unable to read something that's straightforward & pick up on what's
being said.
Well if you want to go & read made-up & invented Wicca-crap by authors
who barely know a the subject, be my guest. Many McWiccans prior to you
are doing just that & Llewellyn's sales show that is also so.
And with that said, I find it humorous that any rational individual
would want to wallow in ignorance & pretend Wicca instead of study &
learn the real thing. But oh well...
You're not looking for a teacher, you're looking for a leader; two very
different roles.
Moloch
--- In EarthwiseBOS@yahoogroups.com, karla mata <candy14955@...> wrote:
>
> i'm actually reading wiccan books. not pagan. i'm sorry but i don't
approve of
> you trying to lead me away from my beliefs.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Moloch moloch@...
> To: EarthwiseBOS@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, October 7, 2010 8:47:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [Earthwise] looking for a teacher.
>
> Â
> >my first question is on religouse tolerance. should a witch tolerate
the bible?
> >it says to not be a witch and to stay away from witches. and to kill
witches and
> >not let them live. should i be tolerant of this?<
> >
>
> Hi Karla. My answer to that is learn your history about Witchcraft
first and no
> I'm not talking about history as written by Ll-ewe-llyn authors
either; rather
> learn from non-pagan books. Why? Pagan authors are just as bad as
Christian
> authors in that they make up stuff that's not true or they stretch the
truth a
> bit much. For example: more than one Pagan author has used the 9
million
> persecute & killed during the Inquisition for Witchcraft.
>
> Baloney!
>
> Accurate Fact #1: More people who persecuted & killed for heresy than
Witchcraft
> during the Inquisition
>
> Accurate Fact #2: The numbers may have been in the hundreds of
thousands or
> maybe a million or so but there is no evidence to support the claimof
9 million.
>
> If you want to make a point about killings in the name of Jesus, why
not use the
> 4,000+ beheadings of Anglo-Saxon leaders who were murdered by the good
christian
> king Charlegmagne in 784 c.e., for refusal to give up their pagan ways
& accept
> Jesus. Some accounts say it was 4,800, some say it was 4,500 but I
generally use
> 4,000+ to be safe. This was called: "Bloody Verdict of Verden or
Massacre of
> Verden".
>
> In all fairness, some scholars claim there is no archeological
evidence to
> support such an event occurred. Some have suggested that these A-S
leaders were
> taken by their clans & buried along with their kin instead of assuming
there'd
> be some sort of mass grave. The following from Wikipedia gives some
interesting
> info about beheadings during this time period:
>
> The following is from Wikipedia: "On the issue of beheading the
historian Ramsay
> MacMullen notes that in 681 a council of bishops at Toledo called on
civil
> authorities to seize and behead all those guilty of non-Christian
practices of
> whatever sort. Â These massacres were common on both sides
throughout the
> Christianization of Europe, with similar events involving pagan
Saxons, Germans
> and Celts and Christians documented in Britain and Ireland." (Ramsay
MacMullen,
> Christianity & Paganism in the Fourth to Eighth Centuries, Chap
> 1:16,"Persecution", ISBN 0-300-07148-5)
>
> That alone is horrid. Murder... be-headings... christianity. I mean
what would
> Jesus think? I'm certain he'd be flat out shocked. Such atrocities are
never
> intended to glorify Jesus but rather glorify the maniac(s) who ordered
the
> killings in the first place.
>
> Learn to use history to your advantage. Stay away from Llewllyn Pagan
books
> because they are woefully inaccurate & often just plain wrong. Use
good, solid
> historical sources for your arguments so that your detractors will be
hard
> pressed to refute your claims.
>
> That's my suggestion, Karla. Hope it helps you in some way.
>
>
>
> Cordially,
> Brother Moloch 969
> 'Real Sorcery, Radionics & Haitian Vodu 24/7'
> www.molochsorcery.comÂ
>

1b.

Re: looking for a teacher.

Posted by: "Moloch" moloch@molochsorcery.com   xx_moloch_xx

Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:15 am (PDT)



>wiccans and pagans go hand in hand i study wicca and paganism together<

Patrick, all Wiccans are Pagans but not all Pagans are Wiccan.
Wicca is a religion; Paganism is more of a way of life.
There is no such thing as the Pagan Religion because any religion that
is not Christian, Islamic or Jewish is by definition a pagan religion.
Moloch
1c.

Re: looking for a teacher.

Posted by: "mary" marydaze19@yahoo.com   birca658

Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:59 pm (PDT)



I don't think the attitude you are giving this girl here is necessary. If she
misunderstood you, what is to be done?

________________________________

Mary

http://birca658.imagekind.com


________________________________
From: Moloch <moloch@molochsorcery.com>
To: EarthwiseBOS@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 11:10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Earthwise] looking for a teacher.

Lead you away from your wiccan beliefs??? How long have you had a reading
comprehension disability, Karla? Because obviously you are unable to read
something that's straightforward & pick up on what's being said.

Well if you want to go & read made-up & invented Wicca-crap by authors who
barely know a the subject, be my guest. Many McWiccans prior to you are doing
just that & Llewellyn's sales show that is also so.

And with that said, I find it humorous that any rational individual would want
to wallow in ignorance & pretend Wicca instead of study & learn the real thing.
But oh well...

You're not looking for a teacher, you're looking for a leader; two very
different roles.

Moloch

--- In EarthwiseBOS@yahoogroups.com, karla mata <candy14955@...> wrote:
>
> i'm actually reading wiccan books. not pagan. i'm sorry but i don't approve of

> you trying to lead me away from my beliefs.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Moloch moloch@...
> To: EarthwiseBOS@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, October 7, 2010 8:47:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [Earthwise] looking for a teacher.
>
> Â
> >my first question is on religouse tolerance. should a witch tolerate the
>bible?
>
> >it says to not be a witch and to stay away from witches. and to kill witches
>and
>
> >not let them live. should i be tolerant of this?<
> >
>
> Hi Karla. My answer to that is learn your history about Witchcraft first and
>no
>
> I'm not talking about history as written by Ll-ewe-llyn authors either; rather

> learn from non-pagan books. Why? Pagan authors are just as bad as Christian
> authors in that they make up stuff that's not true or they stretch the truth a

> bit much. For example: more than one Pagan author has used the 9 million
> persecute & killed during the Inquisition for Witchcraft.
>
> Baloney!
>
> Accurate Fact #1: More people who persecuted & killed for heresy than
>Witchcraft
>
> during the Inquisition
>
> Accurate Fact #2: The numbers may have been in the hundreds of thousands or
> maybe a million or so but there is no evidence to support the claimof 9
>million.
>
> If you want to make a point about killings in the name of Jesus, why not use
>the
>
> 4,000+ beheadings of Anglo-Saxon leaders who were murdered by the good
>christian
>
> king Charlegmagne in 784 c.e., for refusal to give up their pagan ways & accept
>
> Jesus. Some accounts say it was 4,800, some say it was 4,500 but I generally
>use
>
> 4,000+ to be safe. This was called: "Bloody Verdict of Verden or Massacre of
> Verden".
>
> In all fairness, some scholars claim there is no archeological evidence to
> support such an event occurred. Some have suggested that these A-S leaders were
>
> taken by their clans & buried along with their kin instead of assuming there'd

> be some sort of mass grave. The following from Wikipedia gives some interesting
>
> info about beheadings during this time period:
>
> The following is from Wikipedia: "On the issue of beheading the historian
>Ramsay
>
> MacMullen notes that in 681 a council of bishops at Toledo called on civil
> authorities to seize and behead all those guilty of non-Christian practices of

> whatever sort. Â These massacres were common on both sides throughout the
> Christianization of Europe, with similar events involving pagan Saxons, Germans
>
> and Celts and Christians documented in Britain and Ireland." (Ramsay MacMullen,
>
> Christianity & Paganism in the Fourth to Eighth Centuries, Chap
> 1:16,"Persecution", ISBN 0-300-07148-5)
>
> That alone is horrid. Murder... be-headings... christianity. I mean what would

> Jesus think? I'm certain he'd be flat out shocked. Such atrocities are never
> intended to glorify Jesus but rather glorify the maniac(s) who ordered the
> killings in the first place.
>
> Learn to use history to your advantage. Stay away from Llewllyn Pagan books
> because they are woefully inaccurate & often just plain wrong. Use good, solid

> historical sources for your arguments so that your detractors will be hard
> pressed to refute your claims.
>
> That's my suggestion, Karla. Hope it helps you in some way.
>
>
>
> Cordially,
> Brother Moloch 969
> 'Real Sorcery, Radionics & Haitian Vodu 24/7'
> www.molochsorcery.comÂ
>

1d.

Re: looking for a teacher.

Posted by: "tkdblake93" palaika.pinemoon@gmail.com   tkdblake93

Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:00 pm (PDT)



I'm Blake and new to the group.

I don't compare my beliefs with Christianity or pay much attention to the Bible anymore. For Christians the Bible is the "unerring Word of God" and for me it's just the holy book of a major world religion. I mean, if a lot of Christians paid half the attention (as) some Pagans pay to the Bible, they'd be better Christians!

One thing to remember about Wiccan (and some other Pagan) authors is that most of them are NOT scholars. And that's OK for the most part. Get your spiritual beliefs and practices from a Wiccan (or other Pagan) author, but please get your mythology and history somewhere else. The link below is a good place to start, especially if you want accurate information for the cultural and mythological background of the deities you worship.

A Recommended Reading List for Dedicants
http://www.adf.org/training/resources/reading.html

As for a truly fair and balanced history of Wicca (and earlier forms of European witchcraft), I can wholeheartedly recommend "A
History of Witchcraft" by Jeffrey B. Russell & Brooks Alexander (ISBN:
0500286345).

The link below is also recommended reading, especially when an author is making wild historical claims about their religion.

When is a Celt Not a Celt?
http://www.cyberwitch.com/wychwood/library/WhenIsACeltNotACelt.htm

Oh, a note about living, breathing spiritual teachers. Some of them charge for any and everything. Back in the mid to late 1990s I attended weekly Wicca workshops and paid $5 each time. That was reasonable since we were using space in a New Age bookstore and the teacher came in from out of town.

For those exploring British Traditional Wicca, here's a good link.

Traditional Wica
http://www.tradwicca.org/beginnings.html

Threefold Blessings -- Blake /|\

1e.

Re: looking for a teacher.

Posted by: "karla mata" candy14955@yahoo.com   candy14955

Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:00 pm (PDT)



i'm thinking that the reason you acted and sounded so hostile towards me instead
of friendly is because you are hiding something from me. and i think it would be
in my best interest to stay away from you. i am actually an athiest witch.
something you didn't know about me. and i read wicca books because i take in
information from them that will help me on my path in life. not that you'd
know... i do believe you are definately not a witch. you must want to trap
people in your ways. and you take advantage of them. i see you as a controlling
person. a teacher would teach you that there is no right way in wicca. you
follow your own path. and i'm eclectic. which means i definately follow my own
path. i'm sorry but the naive girl you think i am is just not me. i am far wiser
than you think. even when i was at tender ages i always understood things. i
think you need to stop doing what you do. but i won't tell you you have to. no
one can control you. i am looking for a leader. and a teacher. because what is a
teacher without being able to lead? good bye sir. or madame.

________________________________
From: Moloch <moloch@molochsorcery.com>
To: EarthwiseBOS@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 10:10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Earthwise] looking for a teacher.

 
Lead you away from your wiccan beliefs??? How long have you had a reading
comprehension disability, Karla? Because obviously you are unable to read
something that's straightforward & pick up on what's being said.

Well if you want to go & read made-up & invented Wicca-crap by authors who
barely know a the subject, be my guest. Many McWiccans prior to you are doing
just that & Llewellyn's sales show that is also so. 

And with that said, I find it humorous that any rational individual would want
to wallow in ignorance & pretend Wicca instead of study & learn the real thing.
But oh well...

You're not looking for a teacher, you're looking for a leader; two very
different roles.

Moloch

--- In EarthwiseBOS@yahoogroups.com, karla mata <candy14955@...> wrote:
>
> i'm actually reading wiccan books. not pagan. i'm sorry but i don't approve of

> you trying to lead me away from my beliefs.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Moloch moloch@...
> To: EarthwiseBOS@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, October 7, 2010 8:47:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [Earthwise] looking for a teacher.
>
>  
> >my first question is on religouse tolerance. should a witch tolerate the
>bible?
>
> >it says to not be a witch and to stay away from witches. and to kill witches
>and
>
> >not let them live. should i be tolerant of this?<
> >
>
> Hi Karla. My answer to that is learn your history about Witchcraft first and
>no
>
> I'm not talking about history as written by Ll-ewe-llyn authors either; rather

> learn from non-pagan books. Why? Pagan authors are just as bad as Christian
> authors in that they make up stuff that's not true or they stretch the truth a

> bit much. For example: more than one Pagan author has used the 9 million
> persecute & killed during the Inquisition for Witchcraft.
>
> Baloney!
>
> Accurate Fact #1: More people who persecuted & killed for heresy than
>Witchcraft
>
> during the Inquisition
>
> Accurate Fact #2: The numbers may have been in the hundreds of thousands or
> maybe a million or so but there is no evidence to support the claimof 9
>million.
>
> If you want to make a point about killings in the name of Jesus, why not use
>the
>
> 4,000+ beheadings of Anglo-Saxon leaders who were murdered by the good
>christian
>
> king Charlegmagne in 784 c.e., for refusal to give up their pagan ways & accept
>
> Jesus. Some accounts say it was 4,800, some say it was 4,500 but I generally
>use
>
> 4,000+ to be safe. This was called: "Bloody Verdict of Verden or Massacre of
> Verden".
>
> In all fairness, some scholars claim there is no archeological evidence to
> support such an event occurred. Some have suggested that these A-S leaders were
>
> taken by their clans & buried along with their kin instead of assuming there'd

> be some sort of mass grave. The following from Wikipedia gives some interesting
>
> info about beheadings during this time period:
>
> The following is from Wikipedia: "On the issue of beheading the historian
>Ramsay
>
> MacMullen notes that in 681 a council of bishops at Toledo called on civil
> authorities to seize and behead all those guilty of non-Christian practices of

> whatever sort.  These massacres were common on both sides throughout the
> Christianization of Europe, with similar events involving pagan Saxons, Germans
>
> and Celts and Christians documented in Britain and Ireland." (Ramsay MacMullen,
>
> Christianity & Paganism in the Fourth to Eighth Centuries, Chap
> 1:16,"Persecution", ISBN 0-300-07148-5)
>
> That alone is horrid. Murder... be-headings... christianity. I mean what would

> Jesus think? I'm certain he'd be flat out shocked. Such atrocities are never
> intended to glorify Jesus but rather glorify the maniac(s) who ordered the
> killings in the first place.
>
> Learn to use history to your advantage. Stay away from Llewllyn Pagan books
> because they are woefully inaccurate & often just plain wrong. Use good, solid

> historical sources for your arguments so that your detractors will be hard
> pressed to refute your claims.
>
> That's my suggestion, Karla. Hope it helps you in some way.
>
>
>
> Cordially,
> Brother Moloch 969
> 'Real Sorcery, Radionics & Haitian Vodu 24/7'
> www.molochsorcery.com 
>

2a.

Re: intro

Posted by: "Jack Noah" jcknoah@yahoo.com   jcknoah

Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:00 pm (PDT)



hello, eye`m in springfield, mo

jack

________________________________
From: Monica Duncan <mhimmelsbach25@yahoo.com>
To: Earthwise wicca group <EarthwiseBOS@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, October 12, 2010 5:42:01 PM
Subject: [Earthwise] intro

 
Merry Meet, I'm not exactly sure how this group works, but have been interested
in meeting more Wicca's. My fiance' & I are both Wicca, he's Saxon, & I'm
Natural, we live out in Missouri, near St Louis, and have only met 3 locally.
I'm 28, he's 31, we'll be getting married next spring & hopefully with a
handfasting as well. We currently only have internet access at my sister's & as
soon as I get my phone back on, I'll have it via cell phone. We both have
daughters, he has 1, I have 2, & are both battling child support, ex's & the
state, so have been trying to keep preoccupied by our religion. His family is
Catholic & Mormon, mine is Christian. If I don't answer for a couple days, its
because I haven't made it to my sister's yet. Thanks for being an open group,
blessed be. Monica

3.1.

Re: Intro

Posted by: "Jack Noah" jcknoah@yahoo.com   jcknoah

Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:00 pm (PDT)



hello :)

jack

________________________________
From: Genevieve <genny.macbride@live.com>
To: EarthwiseBOS@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, October 12, 2010 8:30:08 PM
Subject: [Earthwise] Intro

 
Hi, I am Genevieve, also known as 'magicksinger' at some online sites. I was
born a Witch and a Psychic, but learned what I am about 28 years ago. I finally
had a name for what had always been in my blood & my soul. I was coven trained &
initiated in the Keltic tradition, & also initiated into a Greco-Roman tradition
coven, both in LA. I have been practicing as a Solitary about 12 years now,
because the original coven I was in split up after some of the elders went all
dark & power-trippy, and the rest of us elders & the new students withdrew. Most
formed a new coven, I, & a few others went our own ways. It's sad, but stuff
happens, so I moved on. I lived too far from the 2nd coven by then. I have never
been 'in the broom closet', & my family of Catholics & Christians support my
spiritual path because it brings such positive energy to my life. Most families
in New Orleans have at least one who's a Psychic. And most people there burn
their lucky candles or do some little bit of Witchcraft now and then. lol. New
Orleans is unique in a lot of weird ways. I currently live in Laurel, MD where I
am using my mid-life crisis constructively to go to college, getting my diploma
in Graphic Design. I am almost at the 1/2 Century Milestone of my life and love
it. I also hope to meet a great Pagan/Witchy guy to walk the path with & fall in
love with. That would be a good thing. Nice to meet ya'll & Blessed be, Genny.

4.

Arizona

Posted by: "James Ximerson" dragonwarriormage@yahoo.com   dragonwarriormage

Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:00 pm (PDT)



A friend said she will vouch for me in order for me to get a free ticket to Phoenix! They only do it if one has a place to stay once they arrive! They call the person and get it confirmed! I now have my guardian again. I also starting using a personal cloak at times for concealment. I actually enjoy napping outside at times! Doing so in some areas gets one talked to by the cops! I have noticed people saying where did that guy appear from! I need to ask that you-all see the move happening this weekend! Which is possible via them buying the ticket. Merry Meet and Merry Part! Blessed Be! Ed

5.

Yep, You Guessed It... More Shamanic Linguistics

Posted by: "Kenaz Filan" kenazfilan@gmail.com   houngancoquilledumer

Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:26 pm (PDT)



[from http://kenazfilan.blogspot.com]

On Mystic Wicks <http://www.mysticwicks.com/>, a couple of people responded
to my earlier post<http://kenazfilan.blogspot.com/2010/09/whats-in-word-still-more-shamanic.html>about
the linguistic uses of "Shamanism." (You can follow that discussion
here <http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?p=4217803#post4217803>).
Since they both raised great points for discussion, I thought I'd share my
response on my blog.

****

There's definitely a tendency to lump indigenous religious practices
together under the Shamanism banner. "Shamanism" can become a justification
for all sorts of cultural mixing and matching. Holy symbols become consumer
artifacts or aesthetic trappings, to be blended based on color schemes
rather than religious significance. It's like our culture's version of
the *pwen
achete*, the "bought points" or purchased spirits of Haitian Vodou.

By declaring a culture "shamanic," we provide ourselves with a set of
expectations. We focus on the things we consider shamanic - use of plants
(especially if they are entheogenic or hallucinogenic), drumming, trance
journeying or possession, spirit work, etc. - and ignore the finer points of
their culture. For an example of what I'm talking about, look at the way
indigenous American cultures from Algonquin to Zuma have become "Indian
spirituality."

You both mention "bullshit detectors." I agree that a healthy sense of
skepticism is invaluable when studying an unfamiliar spiritual path. But I
think we also have to be careful not to overestimate their accuracy. Keep in
mind that skilled con artists will look nothing like the stereotypical
greasy used car salesman. They're going to be sweet and reassuring: they
will meet all your suspicions with perfectly reasonable answers and play up
to all your expectations. They will be the wise spiritual leader or the
humble peasant as best suits their needs.

By contrast, genuinely spiritual people may appear awkward, alternating
between overbearing forcefulness and meek confusion. They may have the
common human flaws of arrogance and thin-skinned defensiveness. They may
make statements that shock your sense of political correctness or display
behaviors that make you uncomfortable. And your common sense might, with
justifiable reason, tell you to go with the person who met your culturally
and linguistically-determined preconceptions.

Now let's add to the mix the people who are simultaneously lauded as great
spiritual leaders and scorned as dangerous cult-leading frauds. And keep in
mind that spirituality can be a business like anything else. When working
with indigenous cultures you are dealing with a tremendous disparity in
economic power between students and prospective teachers. More often than
not, you're also dealing with a culture wherein paying for services and
religious instruction is an accepted practice.

And as Satori43 said, it's important that the shaman be trusted "within the
group." Figuring out who is and is not trusted can be challenging for people
coming to a culture as complete outsiders. Taking your time and getting to
know your prospective teachers, and their students, is always useful. So is
learning something about their peers and the community in which they operate
as spiritual leaders. It requires more effort than buying an airplane ticket
and writing a check, but the time spent will more than pay for itself in the
short and long term.

--
kenaz filan
kenazfilan @ gmail.com | 917 267 7469
kenazfilan.blogspot.com | www.kenazfilan.com
author:
the haitian vodou handbook
vodou love magic
drawing down the spirits (w/raven kaldera)
vodou money magic
the power of the poppy (forthcoming)
the new orleans voodoo handbook (forthcoming)
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